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Reverend Morris is speaking truth

Reverend Morris is speaking truth Reverend Charles Morris.

By Clayton Hadaway | Tue, May 17, 2011 - 11:00 AM

Reverend Charles Morris is absolutely correct, there is absolutely nothing in the Bible forbidding premarital sex. It is one of the traditions that is man-made to control people.

The only reference is in the Old Testament and in the New Testament only the total mistranslation of the Greek word “porneia” as “fornication” – a clear lie that has no basis.

Due to the patriarchal society, a family with sons was stronger than a family with daughters. However, cultures find ways to balance wealth and power.

In the Old Testament culture, a man seeking marriage would pay the father of the bride. The value of the bride was determined by many factors including her beauty, ability to bear children, strength, various household skills and even her status as a virgin. You find an example of this in the story of Jacob and Leah and Rachel.

Also remember in biblical times, most young women were betrothed based on a family financial deal. Sometimes, she never even had met her husband until the wedding day. And once betrothed the families had to wait until the girl was 12.5 years old before she could marry. Since most boys and girls were married by the time of puberty and there was little dating, singles sexuality was never an issue.

In biblical times, there was nothing wrong with a married man having as many wives as he could afford, concubine and “common” prostitutes. Adultery was only wrong for a married woman, since it violated her husband’s property (and sexual) rights over her and his other wives or concubines.

In biblical times, men were masters, and ruled over women and their children. Women had very few rights, and men often bought women from their families or at an auction usually at age 12.5. Women were owned property of a man. Fathers owned women (daughters, wives, concubines, handmaidens, servants and so on) and if you wanted to have sex with one of his property, then you had to ask him permission.

To sell a daughter, they would get more money if she was a virgin, non-virgins were cheaper to buy. If a man bought a daughter at a virgin price and she was not (after he had sex with her and the bedding was not bloody), then he could return her to the father and get his money back.

Some concubines were war gifts to soldiers for fighting well in battle. They would kill all the men and then share the women among the fighting men. Some concubines were bought at auctions. Prostitutes rented themselves on time-limited basis and [the practice] was never wrong (common, not temple prostitutes worshiping the fertility gods – idolatry was wrong, not prostitution).

It was better to buy a woman than rent one. They had no condoms, or birth control or modern medicines in the Bible days. Most sex rules were just to solve a practical problem of the time.

Today, women have the same sexual freedoms that men have always had. But to try and preach that responsible non-monogamy, premarital sex, or fornication is somehow wrong, simply shows biblical ignorance. But the sexual repressive teachings that developed in the Middle Ages are still followed today based on repressive Christian traditions – out of ignorance and having no biblical basis.

 

Old Testament: Exodus 22:16 – 17, “If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.”

Deuteronomy 22:28 – 29, “If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.”

This Exodus passage is one of the few passages that deal directly with the issue of premarital sex. There are a couple of important points concerning this passage. First, neither the man nor woman is rebuked or punished for any sin (compare with Deuteronomy 22).

The man is required to seek marriage but can be refused by the father. The key here is that there is no punishment for the man and woman having sex.

The punishment is for the change in value of the woman as bride. The term “virgin’s dowry” implies that there was a special dowry (probably of greater compensation) for her virgin status and since she is no longer a virgin, the father is still payed the dowry as compensation regardless of whether she marries the guy or not. Also note that there is no law concerning the pre-marital sexuality of men or unbetrothed non-virgin women.

The passage in Deuteronomy refers to a rape not consensual pre-marital sex. In order to remedy this crime, the man must take the woman into his household and care for her. He cannot divorce her. The rape of a married or engaged woman carried the death penalty. The rape of a virgin who is not engaged carries a lesser penalty. And while the penalty may seem unjust by our culture’s standpoint, the penalty was probably very just for that culture.

In Deuteronomy 22, there is a clear example of what happens to a woman who has had sex prior to her marriage but deceives her parents and husband into believing that she was a virgin and accepted money (“playing the harlot in her father’s house”) for her virgin status. Although the severe penalty for such a deception is stoning, the husband can show love, forgiveness and mercy.

There are two other examples of pre-marital sex in the OT. In Deuteronomy 21:10, there is another case study of how a man is to handle a captive woman. If he desires her as a wife, he must follow the conditions and then sleep with her. If she is found pleasing, he has the option to marry her or he can send her away. The Book of Esther also describes how Esther is brought into the King’s household to become a part of the King’s harem.

In every case of pre-marital sex in the Bible, there is no punishment for the sexual act. The only penalty is the compensation to the father for the woman’s change in status.

There is nothing said about premarital sex in the New Testament.

The scriptures were not written in English. “Fornication” is a great example of the lies in translation of some bibles. Some English bibles say that, others say the more correct translation “sexual immorality”. Porneia meant sexual immorality which included:

• sex during women’s menstruation.

• adultery which biblically was understood by the Hebrews to mean wrong for a married woman to have sex with another man since [it] violated her husband’s property rights. It was never understood to be wrong for a married man since his wife had no such rights.

The married man could have as many wives and concubines (breeders) as he wished as long as [they were] not married (another man’s property). Nothing ever was wrong with singles sexuality.

• Pagan sex goddess prostitution. Porneia as used in 1 Corinthians 6 – 9, falsely translated in some bibles as fornication was actually the practice of the prostitutes in the Temples of Corinth selling their services as a part of pagan fertility goddess worship which was what Paul was warning against. Not even specifically about prostitution (still legal and very popular in Israel today) but used as a pagan sexual goddess worship.

• Pederasty – one of the worst of all sexual sins that took various forms. The practice of pederasty falls into three distinct styles. First, is the relationship between an older man and a young boy. Second, is the practice of slave prostitutes. Third, is that of the effeminate “call boy” or prostitute.

Other practices included a heterosexual male degrading another heterosexual male by anal intercourse after capturing them in battle. Another practice was heterosexual’s using anal intercourse to drive out other heterosexual strangers they didn’t like such as the case of the Sodom story.

It had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality as we know it today, which is simply being as God designed some people to be.

Adultery in biblical times did not mean what it means to us today. Clearly, there was never a word said about the fact [that] Hebrew men could have as many wives, concubines and “other women” as they could afford. This is not adultery in the Hebrew understanding of the adultery Commandment of Moses.

Adultery as understood by what Moses said was only wrong for married women, never a married man.

Christ taught in the Sermon on the Mount that the only law is the law of love. He demonstrated this by reversing four of the OT laws which conflicted with loving people. Therefore, anything that was hurtful, not by mutual consent etcetera, would be immoral for a Christian, but obviously not loving sexuality regardless of marital status or natural sexual orientation.

Reverend Morris will be “rebuked” because he is going against the teaching of the church and will likely be treated as an outcast. This has always been the approach of the church when facts are presented that are contrary to their teachings. Reverend Morris should thank God we are not in the days of the Iquisition, he surely would have been burnt at the stake.

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Posted by skeete melvin 3 years, 3 months ago
I would like to thank this writer for educating us on this subject. We always allow the English interpretation of the Bible to keep us in the dark. Just like how they fix up the Bible to say that it was right to enslave black people. Remember King James, he change the Bible to suit his needs and we foolishly up to this day does still follow this . Very good job Sir, thank you.

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Posted by Carl Harper 3 years, 3 months ago
Why is the Church so reluctant to address this matter head-on? This passage clarifies the Bible position on fornication and adultery: Matthew 19:9 "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery."

A wife who has sex outside of her marriage is committing FORNICATION; if the husband marries another woman if he divorced his previous wife for any reason other than fornication, he is committing ADULTERY; if man marries the divorced wife, he is also committing ADULTERY.

So, while fornication is a sin, premarital sex is not fornication. Extramarital sex is therefore fornication and NOT adultery.

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Posted by Mark Williams 3 years, 3 months ago
Gentlemen, if you were reading and studying the Bible you would know that it is absolutely wrong to have premarital sex first the Church is the institute of God in the earth bought by the Blood of Christ if the church instituted a measure that would help make our society stable, stronger and mature we should do our utmost to uphold what is decent. Second remember what happen to David when he went after one of his Army generals wives, third remember Abraham sent his servant out back to his home land to find a wife for his son Isaac, and most of all let us not forget the ten Commandment this is God's law that we should obey , they are not suggestions.
If you are called to preach the Gospel of salvation to a lost world, what on earth are you talking sexual issues, Please help lead people to the Cross and to Jesus Christ.

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Posted by Henderson Browne 3 years, 3 months ago
Just thinking about your presentation. You noted the "special Dowry" that was required for virgins. This suggests that a special emphasis was placed on not having sex before marriage. In fact in the same Deut. 22 proof had to be brought of a woman's virginity if a charge was brought against her. If it was found that she was not a virgin she is compared to a harlot. Not a trade that God is ok with.

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Posted by Brerlou King 3 years, 3 months ago
It is futile to discuss this subject without a clear definition of marriage. First of all why should common-law marriage which is recognized in some legal jurisdictions as marriage be recognized as marriage? Secondly, does one have to have a ceremony recognized by civil authorities to be deemed married? Thirdly, does a priest or civil authority have to be present for a marriage to be recognized by God as such? Can two consenting adults not plight their troth before God, one doesn't need a priest to pray to God?

All this is relevant because most Barbadians were born of common-law relationships sanctioned retroactively by civil and not church authorities. These people were married to all intents and purposes. At what point did they sin? At what point did they become married? "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." Certainly in all truth, and certainly in spirit, and latterly even in the eyes of the law these people were married and not guilty of sin.

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Posted by Carl Harper 3 years, 3 months ago
Sometimes we need people like Reverend Charles Morris in society – non-conformists – to challenge the status quo, popular belief and sameness of thought. What a world this would be if everyone was in agreement on all matters! We would hardly make progress in politics, science and technology, mathematics – and certainly religion. Though my attempt here is not to be a theological scholar, the alternate view can stimulate discussion and debate and is therefore healthy for society.

It is on Rev Morris’ dissenting view that I see his position that “premarital sex” does not exist anywhere in the Bible and is therefore not sinful or wrong. What we have accepted in our Western civilization is that “marriage,” as we have come to know it, satisfies a legal requirement. As a matter of fact, we get carried away more with the wedding, pomp and ceremony than the significance of the marriage...to be cont'd...

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Posted by Carl Harper 3 years, 3 months ago
This practice of marriage has been negated to some degree by the fact that the same system that formalized and legalized marriage has allowed Common Law relationships the same legal standing after a specified period of time has elapsed. Hence, these couples have the same legal rights as others who have signed the marriage register. Furthermore, the same system is now giving acceptance the world over to same sex marriages, allowing both partners the same legal marital rights as heterosexual couples.

Furthermore, the same system that approves marriage also makes it possible and easy for a couple to divorce for any reason or disagreement, and marry to another if they choose or remarry each other again if they decide they want to be together, again. Clearly, a mockery of the sacred institution of marriage! It also leaves open the relevance of “’til death do us part” during the wedding vows. It should be noted that other than fornication or death, any remarrying puts a person squarely in violation of the Seventh Commandment: Exodus 20:14 “Thou shall not commit adultery.”....to be cont'd...

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Posted by Carl Harper 3 years, 3 months ago
The Church in western societies finds itself in a bind between God’s Law and the Law of the Land and the desire to satisfy both. While Rev Morris acknowledges fornication as wrong, he refutes that premarital sex is fornication. This is borne in Matthew 19:9 “…Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.” Fornication is therefore the sexual unfaithfulness of one or both partners in a union (which we call marriage) – but I accept marriage can also be a union between a man and woman who acknowledge each other as husband and wife and remain sexually faithful to each other. Sex with any other person breaks that union and forms another – and fornication would have taken place. It is usually rear that one partner catches the other in the act of fornication so is often difficult to prove.

Another interesting point Rev Morris made is that even though premarital sex is not fornication, sex is best held within the sanctity of “marriage” and not by promiscuity. What he is trying to say is that though the Church’s held view or position may be at variance with what is written in the Bible on the subject, society as a whole may be better ordered if couples stick with one partner. As 1 Corinthians 7:2 puts it “But, because of fornications, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.” From a medical and social point of view, this would be better in reducing sexually transmitted diseases and person having children from different partners. This and the family unit can also be achieved without the ritual of marriage that we have grown accustomed....next, conclusion...

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Posted by Carl Harper 3 years, 3 months ago
In conclusion, it seems that theologians are still struggling with the interpretation of the Bible, with each Christian denomination having a different view and understanding of the Word. It also appears that there is no unified position on when to use the Old or New Testament. In fact, depending on the situation, Bible scholars select parts from each to suit their purpose. This tends to lead to confusion among followers in not knowing what is right or wrong – as in the case with “sex before marriage.” In addition, there still remains the uncertainty on how Christians should fit into man-made laws as the Bible requires this as a condition of Christian living. What is important is that if we are all going to meet Jesus, we can approach Him from different directions via highway or cart road; in car or horse buggy.

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Posted by Mark Williams 3 years, 3 months ago
Also please check the New Testament again, there are clearly there many verses that instruct’s the true believer how they should and should not live.
The Body is the Temple of the Living God
1 Cor 6:18-20 (NKJV)
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Cor 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
Romans 12:1-2 (NKJV)
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Titus 3:3 (NKJV)
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another


Romans 6:19 (NKJV)
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Romans 6:13 (NKJV)
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

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Posted by Mark Williams 3 years, 3 months ago
We will always struggle with the Bible, But we must persevere and study to show our selves approved unto God.
And we must believe in the author of the Bible ( New and old testament ), For those who are true followers of Christ there are never confused
Truly...Christians are to obey the law of the land just as any other citizen
The direction to meet Jesus is at the CROSS, and we can only meet God our father when we truly come to Jesus Christ.
If we continue to question and doubt the written and spoken word of God which is provided for the saving of our Souls , we will be deceived to the point of perishing.
Truly ..We can never institute a law that will force people not to have Sex until there are married, And we all have broken all of the Ten commandments.
But if preachers and teachers of the Gospel make and approve statements on issues that have already proven to be detrimental to our society throughout the Western world we may be crossing a new boundary.
How should the young people of our country take that statement about premarital Sex.
I am absolutely certain that if we do not use the written and spoken word of God for our daily life we will continue to stumble in confusion and darkness.
Can we all agree on one thing ( THAT JESUS WOULD NOT APPROVE PREMARTAL SEX)

Phil 4:7-8 (NKJV)
7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.

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Posted by Brerlou King 3 years, 3 months ago
All this argument is futile without a proper definition of marriage. Most people, including Rev Morris, are I think confusing the wedding ceremony with marriage, a world wide multi-cultural institution. In its most general definition, marriage must be viewed as a publicly endorsed committed monogamous relationship between a man and a woman.

I view sex outside of such a relationship as wrong, and a sin in the Christian religion. However, to pretend that there is no such thing as a Barbadian sub-culture, coming out of slavery, is hypocrisy. In the Barbadian subculture there is such a thing as a virtual marriage, called a common-law marriage, recognized by the law, but not by the church, a further hypocrisy.

I can't believe that two people living together for decades in such a relationship are literally, "living in sin." God knows they are committed to each other, but this raises the question of, when were they married? My answer is, when Jesus cleansed the lepers and told them to show themselves to the priests, when were they healed before God, who healed them, before or after showing themselves to the priests?

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Posted by Carl Harper 3 years, 3 months ago
Mr. King, I am not sure what your position is on "marriage" and "sex outside of marriage." You seem to be saying two different things, thereby leading to confusion and contradiction. You said, "I view sex outside of such a relationship as wrong, and a sin...." Then you further went on to say, "I can’t believe that two people living together for decades in such a relationship are literally, 'living in sin.'"

If you are defining marriage as a "publicly endorsed committed monogamous relationship between a man and a woman," hasn’t the same public (and Law) endorsed common law relationships and in some places, same sex marriages? The same Church that bought into your earlier definition of marriage between a man and woman, now finds itself in a quandary over these other types of PUBLIC and LEGAL marriages (endorsements). It is the same system to which they subscribe and approved to be our guide on marital issues, in addition to the Bible. While the Law continued to evolve and gave rise to these other types of marriages, the Church remained static in its view – caught in a trap between Bible and Law.

Ponder on this question for a moment: How can a man and woman be legally married and if they never have sex cannot be divorced, rather there has to be an annulment? The answer should satisfy your question: when are two people married after “living together for decades” in a common law relationship? They are married when they first had SEX – sex consummates the union (the marriage). Indeed, if no sex took place between them during those years, they were never married.

If there is one thing we both agree on, is the HYPOCRISY that exists in the Church and wider society. The wedding ceremony or signing the register is just a formality to satisfy some legal requirements, or “public endorsement.”

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Posted by Mark Williams 3 years, 3 months ago
If we truly lived the Christian life in the Spirit and by the written code these things are possible, but as you mentioned, throughout the entire world this is a serious problem for all mankind, but we know that God most high did not make a mistake, sometimes we may put our thoughts at the forefront of scripture, but as it is written, God thoughts are higher that our thoughts. Having Sex outside of marriage can be accounted as Sexual immorality (Not being sexually pure) which can bring us in conflict with Gods holy word. But we have all sinned and fall short of the Glory of God and will always need the Cross and the Shed blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of our Sins, We must repent and avoid such that would bring us in disagreement with our Heavenly Father and his word. The scriptures below can shed some light on the subject, these are instructions that were written to the Church in the days of the apostles and are still committed to us the Church of this day. We who called ourselves Christians have the written code in our hands we cannot ignore what it is saying.
(Romans 13:12-13, 1 Corinthians 5:11, 1 Corinthians 6:18, Galatians 5:16,19, Ephesians 5:3-4, Colossians 3:5-6, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:3).,

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Posted by Mark Williams 3 years, 3 months ago
I am referring to the statement ( Anglican cleric’s claim there is nothing wrong with premarital sex and that the Bible never deemed it a sin.)For us who knows that our sins are forgiven and have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour, such statement by a Christian teacher and preacher does not conform to Biblical teaching, and as a christian we should always be lead by the Holy spirit and Holy Scriptures.
I view premartal sex = for those dating one partner only, or casual sex with multiple partners, etc. This may be the way of the lost of which we all once participated ( outside of the acceptance of Christ) But if you are a christian you do your utmost to reframe from past acts and deeds, to follow Jesus Christ.

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Posted by Tony Waterman 3 years, 3 months ago
I think that Mark williams must have either read a different Bible or completely misunderstood what he had read.What Happened to David?? as far as i can remember David wanted to have Uriah's Wife so he put him to lead the charge into Battle knowing full well that he would not survive the first charge, and he was in bed with her before Uriah's Body was cold,that roll in the proverbial Hay resulted in a child.
Not Talking about Sexual issues is just what have us in the mess we are in today.
I have perused most of the KJ ver. and the best i can come up with is "Sexual Immorality" there is definitely no mention of "Premarital Sex) There is on verse that states that one can have premarital Sex with a Woman as long as it the Man's intent to Marry her( The Shoe Anology)(Not Buying A Pig In The bag) but it also went on to say that the father of the Woman can also refuse to allow you to Marry her.
I Remember reading Somewhere that "A lie repeated often enough at some point tends to become the truth" and i believe that this is what the Church has been doing for a long time.
This will probably cause a change in the Anglican Faith akin to the Catholic Church Change on Their Stance on the Use of CondomsTony Waterman
Ottawa,Canada

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