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Pastor
sees good
in rod
Published on: 10/26/2009.
PASTOR PATRICIA HOLDER of the Mount Hermon Church, Cave Hill, St Michael, believes that children must be firmly disciplined.
She quoted from Bible verses yesterday to support her position as she addressed the congregation at Sanctuary Empowerment Centre, Country Road, St Michael at the start of Teachers' Week.
"When we correct our children we are showing our delight in them. God is telling us this morning that we've got to correct our children," she said, noting that parents should not allow their children's cries to stop them from being disciplined.
"If we allow the tears to always fool us there will come a time when they will wrap us around their finger and all hope would be lost. Do it while they are yet young. It is said that when the tree is young you can bend it and it will bend way down before it breaks," she said.
The Bible "is telling us not to spare the rod", said Holder, adding that she thanked God for the lashes she got as a child.
"Children appreciate us when we take the time to correct them in love, so if you're going to brutalise the child and abuse the child that is a different story altogether. I would never go to a school and tell the teacher don't hit my child," Holder said.
She urged the congregation to support all teachers. She also said when parents brought their babies to be dedicated she told them they were responsible for them.
"I take the opportunity to tell them your child is not to be trained or raised by the government. You cannot leave your child to be raised by the school system.
"You cannot leave your child to be raised by the church. You cannot leave your child to be raised by the grandparents, by the aunties or anybody.
"It is your responsibility, you brought that child into this world," Holder added. (DS)
28 comment found!
: 11/7/2009
Pastor Holder, Congrats for standing up and preaching the truth. As a teacher, I wish more parents would use the rod instead of sending their ill mannered charges to us to discipline. Time they reach the school, they are already stubborn, rude and absolutely disrespectful to authority. Is this the generation we are raising, well I need to look for another job. No one is advocating abuse but discipline those lil thugs you people have for children. Thank God for the licks I got, they kept me far from the jail house and closer to God.
Pastor Sees good in Rod : 10/27/2009
bajan_49er This is the most IGNORANT comment of them all. I use the word IGNORANT both pejoratively and in its normal usage meaning "not knowing" or uninformed. You also deserve PITY!
: 10/27/2009
bajan_49er: Context my friend context. Do you know the meaning of the word? Put the matter in context.There is no NEXUS here
Pastor Sees good in Rod : 10/27/2009
NIMBUS: I pity you. You seem to have a problem with the ability to think through an issue and understanding the matter at hand. I am glad that all you can do is write foolishness on your computer.
Pastor Sees good in Rod : 10/27/2009
cccrrraaaazzzzzzzyyy!: You can string words together, but you can't think!
Pastor Sees good in Rod : 10/27/2009
NIMBUS The guys who carried out the attack a "Columbine" (remember the school where a lot of children were brutally killed?) were sent to their rooms many times, had increased chores, and many more of the same stuff you are recommending. What is wrong with you? Are you going to remain stupid forever?
A Lost Generation of Parents : 10/27/2009
Well said "100% Bajan"! We are all different human beings and what is good for the goose is not always the best for the gander. There must be rules. In every situation, there must be consequences for not adhering to those rules. The truth of the matter is that some children require different things, mostly based on their enviromnent, their parental training, their understanding of the need to follow rules in the home, school, society, etc. Some get it sooner than others. Some understand it right away and hence, no need for "the punishnment" (the rod). JUST SOME, not ALL! Some are challenging. Some challenge (even when they are coming out of the same household with the same parents teaching, training and parenting in the very same way), but each child may require different strategies. Some have abilities. Some disabilities. And the list goes on. But, it all begins in the home and with the parent. Parenting is a BIG JOB. And, if you have raised more than one child, you know and understand the differences. One child you may punish with talking and he can reason easily and understand and is usually afraid of being chastised by you, the other you might have to string up by the ears for him to respond to your wishes. Let us be honest! Those same children leave the home for school after you have failed and you have had your own difficulties. You send them out into society, to school to be in an enviromnent with a few more like them (the good and understanding kids and the not so good and "hard-ears"). And, what do we expect to occur? Now, consider the teacher in the classroom of over 30 of your children (the good and not so good)and the rules in the school. Consider the playground with their peers, 100 or more of them at a time (the good and not so good). And now grown and adults, in the workplace with the boss and their co-workers (the good and not so good). We just need to understand that in every place and in every society, THERE ARE RULES to be followed. And, this must first be taught in the home by the parent. The moment that child leaves the home and heads into these different enviroments of society, they deserved to have been trained by you, the parents, on the need to FOLLOW THE RULES AND the LAWS. They should be taught the CONSEQUENCES for disobedience and disrespect to elders and peers. They are required to understand clearly that if they break rules at school and playground, the consequences are - THE ROD, EXPULSION, DETENTION, ISOLATION, EMBARASSMENT, FAILURE. In the workplace - DISMISSAL,LOSS OF INCOME, EMBARASSMENT, FAILURE, POVERTY, CRIME. In society - PRISON, ISOLATION, LOSS OF INDEPENDENCE, EMBARRASMENT, FAILURE, THE ROD, THE NOOSE. So, it is undoubtedly, the parent's duty and responsibility to ensure that their child gets it before they are released into society. Because if they don't get it, and FAST, then, they will get it from us. We won't SPARE THE ROD, so, YOU HAD BETTER NOT SPOIL THE CHILD! And, be careful, there are places with laws that hold parents accountable for their children's behaviour or lack thereof. If the child commits a crime, the parent is held responsible and is fined and could also be jailed for their actions. Sounds good to me! If you can't rear them well, DON'T HAVE THEM! And, if you do decide to have children, keep them at home until they are properly trained and clear on the rules and laws outside of the home before you let them out into society, because WE WILL NOT SPARE THE ROD! Perhaps the government should revisit the laws to make the changes that would ensure that parents be accountable for the actions of their children. SPARE NOT THE ROD! Instead of the children getting the rod, maybe it should be the parents. Should be no issues there of abuse. Let's do it!
1000% agreement with 1000% Bajan : 10/26/2009
1000% Bajan said it all. I echo the writer's comments because growing up in St. Matthias with a hard nosed grand mother and even harder mother, it was imperative that we adhered to rules or suffer the consequences. I applaud 1000% Bajan on their tacit and well written response
Spare not the rod : 10/26/2009
Well, well, well It is clear to see that there will not be any change, because as they say, the bible say so. Als, stone those who disobey the law.
Well Said : 10/26/2009
Pastor thanks for preaching the word of God in it's entirety. Responsibility is the key here. If the parents would make the sacrifice that is required of them to raise their children, there would be little or no need for spanking. The teachers would then be able to concentrate more on teaching without having this distraction. Those that would condemn the pastor for preaching what God said in His word lack godly understanding. God knows that children are born unruly, that is why He said to train them up in the way they should go and not to be fooled by their crying if you have to spank them. You cannot keep talking with children when they are deliberately ignoring your instructions. Eventually they will be slapping you down as I have seen done to some parents. I have seen jails bursting their seams with young men and women many of whom will tell you that they wish they had someone in their lives to discipline them. A lot of these came out of this new age movement that wants to shut out the word of God. You just can't do this less you find yourself fighting with God Himself. Obedience to the Word of God brings the reward. God and His word will always win because He created us and knows exactly what we need to keep us in this world.
following the bible laws : 10/26/2009
the bible also say that an unruly child should be stone to death.(deuteronomy:18-21) should we do this also ?
Parents Job : 10/26/2009
I truly think it is the parents job to punish a child for wrong doing.The parents bring children into the world.What right do other people have to do the punishing.The rights of a mother and father seem to have gone out the window.
PASTOR SEES GOOD IN ROD : 10/26/2009
Sending children to their rooms is a joke these days. For in many rooms are an assortment of electronic gadgetry adored by them and to which they would gladly turn,if sent there as punishment. Timeouts are essentially a waste of time too. The good Pastress Holder is spot on, because she's interpreting GOD's Word correctly. When GOD talks about sparing the rod, He means exactly that- a device for inflicting punishment for wrongdoing. However,HE DOES NOT MEAN THAT PARENTS AND/OR TEACHERS ARE TO ABUSE CHILDREN. Floggings are to be carried out when the flogger is calm and not angry or in an excited state. They're to be done after an explanation as to why the flogging is warranted. Love for the child and a desire to see the wrongdoer go in the right direction should be uppermost in the mind of the flogger and not simply a desire to punish. Once this is present, the flogger is on solid ground with the Lord. I was flogged as a child and though I disliked it at the time, I've since learned to appreciate the value of the floggings and the vital part they have played in my development as a person. By the way, the fact that I'm writing this is proof that the floggings which I received, didn't kill me or caused serious bodily harm. GOD ALWAYS knows of what He speaks. The same can't be said of man. As such, I'm going with the Lord on this one. Leonard B, Nimbus and the False Prophet have all missed the mark, in my view. Wheel and come again. To Pure Bajan, while GOD is a God of love, He's also a God of wrath. Let's present a balanced view of Him rather than the mushy manner in which many today (even Christians) portray Him.
PASTOR SEES GOOD IN ROD: : 10/26/2009
TO PRODIGAL SON: THE QUOTE FROM HOSEA 4:6,THAT IS A BOOK IN THE BIBLE,IS THERE FOR PEOPLE SUCH AS YOU. REMEMBER,MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.NO PASTOR SHOULD BE ADVOCATING ANY FORM OF VIOLENCE FROM THE PULPIT,AND JUST IN CASE THE PASTOR DID NOT KNOW THIS FLOGGING IS A VIOLENT ACT.IF YOU TEACH LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THE PULPIT YOUR CONGREGATION WOULD BE BETTER EQUIPPED TO DISCIPLINE THEIR CHILDREN,WITHOUT BEATING THEM INTO SUBMISSION.
Flogging(correction) : 10/26/2009
Why, would a "sensible woman" sign psychotic to her name. There are many psychologist and psychiatrist who do not flog their children, and their children are totally uncontrollable. Simlarly, there are persons who beat their children unmercifully, and their children too, are uncontrollable. It's my opinion, that there is a time and place for everything, some children respond to reason,others don't, flogging is for those who don't repond to reason and verbal appeals. A child must understand that he/she is reponsible for his her actions, and he/she must accept the consequences of his or her choices. Level Head
Tekkin bak we kuntry : 10/26/2009
"Bajan in India" is drinking too much of the cool aid and watching too many TV talk shows. He wants to find creative ways to deal with tardiness...Well here are a couple of ways (1). Parents should make sure their kid gets up early enough to get to school on time (2) Buy a fowl cock or a clock....Could you imagine how late they would be if they had to bring water. Baje in India thinks that morning assembly might be boring .Sorry to tell you but so is getting on the 5:45A:M railroad for a 2 hour trip into Manhattan 5 days a week in subzero temperature so that i can feed my family...Driving a ZR might be more exciting but a lot less rewarding.Baje in India thinks that "someone" needs to look into why kids are late..They are late because they lack disipline &\or parental guidance... they are watching TV\playing XBox with Mummy & Daddy until past midnight and Mommy & Daddy too tired\irresponsible to wake them up...my folks -child abusers that they were- would have have opened the windows, start singing, slam a couple of doors and then and pour water on me....but you see they had to be awake inorder to do these things.Baje in India feels that we should reach out to the kids and engage teenagers in fixing the problem...But the teacher with the whip was reaching out to get the recalicitrant...The parents could also trade in the XBox and buy a clock or better yet set the kid's PDA to alarm... Why is that the Guyanese & Chinese workers don't have a problem with punctuality ...maybe we as a people lost our way .UWI wants a graduate in every h\hold within the next 10 yrs... better teach 'em to tell time other wise they are going to miss too many classes to graduate before 2100.Solution send them "over-in-away" and see how quickly they become punctual or unemployed. With regard to counselling first time offenders te best type of counselling is a good "cutass" at the front gate. "Hardears yuh doh hear cutass yuh goh feel"
Literal interpretations : 10/26/2009
Is the rod of correction a reference to the literal rod (tamarind, leather, wood etc)? Is there no place for us to interpret this to mean correction by the way we communicate and model appropriate behavior for our children? I agree with the minister that the buck stops with parents, but the idea that in punishing children we must extract tears, or else the child will walk all over us is cccrrraaaazzzzzzzyyy!
: 10/26/2009
Leonard B, I'm happy to see that not all bajans are not stuck in the stone age. It's shameful that pastors are 'blessing' the physical abuse of children. Terror. Yes, that's what it is, you ignorant parents. What the jews did to their children 2-5000yrs ago when they weren't praying to a volcanic mountain should not be held up as a pediatric ideal today. Children must be lead, spoken too, and sometimes disciplined( go2your room/no tv/no pocket-money/extra chores), but physical terror is an expression of ignorance and failure.
WELL SAID PASTOR HOLDER : 10/26/2009
Well said Pastor Holder. May God continue to bless you. If we fail to instill descipline in our kids, the POLICE and the PRISON OFFICER at HMPD will continue to do it for us.
PASTOR : 10/26/2009
It is difficult to believe any one in this day and age can put forward such absolute and unadulterated crap. You can discipline children without making them cry. I stand firm on the side of discipline, but this idea that you have got to hurt children and make them cry inorder to effectively discipline them is simply nonsensical.
: 10/26/2009
Thank God Pastor Patricia Holder of the Mount Hermon Church, Cave Hill, St Michael, who believes that children must be firmly disciplined. And did not hold her peace but told it to the congregation like it is. Now, she must tell both the males and females youth to wear chasity belts and rings. Then the standard of the country will be elevated and the poor will become richer. May God richly Bless you and your flock Pastor Patricia Holder. I attended your church last year, while visiting Barbados.
Flogging : 10/26/2009
Preach it Pastor i am in full agreement with you . Children are to be assisted by the government in their development by providing services and opportunites for growth .It is not the duty of the state to raise peoples children .If parents and and persons near to these children would train these children in the right way to go then alot of the problems we have will and can be avoided .We blame the government and everything around us for our ignorance and our refusal to guide our children and wards . A flogging does not mean brutality . If parents would do this or recognise that they are not capable of doing so and seek the relevant help they would do a good . We can save the tax payers money and ourselvs as parents and relatives uncalled for heartache and shame .
Pastor sees good in rod : 10/26/2009
PASTOR PATRICIA HOLDER,LIKE SO MANY CHRISTIANS INTERPRET THE BIBLE TO SUIT THEIR NEEDS,INSTEAD OF CAREFULLY READING GOD'S WORD AND TEACHING HER CONGREGATION IN LIKE MANNER. NOT ONE OF US WHO WERE SPANKED OR FLOGGED AS CHILDREN LIKED IT,BECAUSE IT HURT AND IT MADE US ANGRY AT THOSE ADMINISTERING PUNISHMENT.TELL ME WHAT CHILD EVER SAID,THANK YOU MOM,DAD, FOR THAT BEATING YOU GAVE ME YESTERDAY? THE BIBLE TEACHES LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING,AND HOW TO TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT,BE IT A CHILD OR ADULT. MANY OF US MISQUOTE THE BIBLE INCLUDING PASTORS. HOSEA CHAPTER 4 VERSE 6 SAYS:MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE:BECAUSE THOU HAST REJECTED KNOWLEDGE,I WILL ALSO REJECT THEE,THAT THOU SHALT BE NO PRIEST TO ME: SEEING THOU HAST FORGOTTEN THE LAW OF THY GOD,I WILL ALSO FORGET THY CHILDREN.PASTOR HOLDER TEACH YOU CONGREGATION ABOUT GOD'S LOVE,AND PLEASE DO NOT ADVOCATE BEATING THEIR CHILDREN,AND YES I AM A PARENT WITH TWO CHILDREN IN THEIR 30'S AND I OR MY WIFE WHO IS ALSO BAJAN NEVER SPANKED THEM ONCE,AND THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN TROUBLE WITH THE LAW OR GONE TO JAIL AS SOME SUGGEST IF WE DON'T USE THE ROD.
Time to move on!! : 10/26/2009
Here we go again with this archaic BS. Is it really that difficult for some individuals to grasp the concept of discipline for children without the horrible act of beating them? There are so many other means of punishment. We are a few weeks away from 2010. Smarten up folks!! By the way we expect better from church leaders.
: 10/26/2009
Too true
discipline : 10/26/2009
Amen I agree with you.When I read some of the comments in the paper about no one should discipline they child in school that is crazy. Some of those parents need discipline themself. My children were discipline in school.When they told me about it the first thing I say to them is what did you do wrong.If it is something I need to speak to teacher about I would do so.When I have to discipline them I always tell them I love them but this is something I have to do. There is nothing wrong with the rod. Bajan48 Arkansas
: 10/26/2009
Dear Pastor mayNLIinform you that the same BIBLE you speak of stated,THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM,I have reasons to believe that you don't fear the Lord You need to learn that corporal punishment and discipline are not synonymous. Stop misleading your flock.
Sensible Woman : 10/26/2009
Why are people with sense in this country so few and far between?
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