LICKS LIKE PEAS!   That punishment was shared out at St Leonard’s Boys’ School yesterday morning for late arrivers.   Senior teacher Dr Victor Agard stopped many children at the entrance just after 10 a.m. and flogged them before allowing them into school.   Some students stayed on the outside until principal Joseph King stopped the exercise and ordered all students to enter.Here, one of the late students getting his share. (Picture by Donnay Deane)

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I LOVE BARBADOS & ITS PEOPLE ALSO : 10/27/2009
I have been sitting back since this debate hit the papers, and although the debate is shifting away from the real issue and the opinions go back and forth, l want to thank Dr. Reuben Haynes PSYD, and the writer "Been There" for their expertise. They both have great insights of education for our children while Dr. Haynes skilfully pointed out the physical and psychological effects of Public Floggings. I believe like many others, there are alternatives to floggings in public and that it should be outlawed. On another note, It is a shame that the debate reached the point of name calling especially the writer "Love Barbados and its People" that called the doctor a fraud. How low people can get especially when they have nothing to contribute to these discussions. Shows imaturity and ignorance. Anyhow, l have learned a great deal of information from this debate especially from these two two writers.

SONIA DAVIS

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RE: "Truthful"? Why dont you go slaughter some goats at an alter and marry 100 women : 10/27/2009
This sick "Spare Rod" logic is Orthodox Pharasee. Shallow thinking with misuse of these religious interpretations is extremely dangerous and a sadistic misrepresentation of truth of messages. Common sense alone shows its not literal..In all those hateful "rod" context English speaking translators incorrectly corrupted Hebrew context of guidance, which was either Shabach and/or Shepherds staff (which was NEVER used to lash sheep) Jesus never hit a child, Jesus never hit a child, Jesus never hit a child - drill that in ya thick skull! and change your ways before you kill someone or encourage children to be killed with this age old religious DOGMA!

FREE MINDED

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FLOGGING: : 10/27/2009
Hats off to you Elizabeth H.you could not have explained it any better,but is anyone going to listen? In Barbados only when a pupil reacts violently and injures or kills a Teacher,only then will the Government Act,and many of these people who are for Beating of children in public will have something else to comment on.

Bajan in Canada

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Board for Flogging : 10/27/2009
I personally think it was wrong to flog those kids. The logical response would have been to not admit the kids to the school, call their parents and only allow them back in school if they show up with their parents for a parent-teacher conference. You beat them, they take the beating and they would do it again!

Superq68

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: 10/27/2009
GET REAL --STONING NOW ! TRUTHFUL ? FLOGGING IS WRONG : BAN FLOGGING NOW before somebody gets hurt !-and it might not be a student !

Buzz B.

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FOGGNG DOES NOT COME FROM SLAVERY: : 10/27/2009
TO HC ALUM: Maybe,you were so caught up in where you went to School,you Learned absolutely nothing. Do you think the Slave uprising happened because the Slave Masters were nice,no it was they were mean and nasty,and they flogged them. Barbados has a History of Flogging,as a young boy i went to the Museum and Saw the CAT O NINE TAILS,i got sick thinking how much PAIN that instrument inflicted.Maybe at HC,YOU NEVER WENT ON TOURS,YOU WERE TOO BUSY THUMBING YOUR NOSES AT OTHER SCHOOLS,WAKE UP HC ALUM.

BLACK BAJAN

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: 10/27/2009
Prov 23:13-14 13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. 14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Prov 13:24 24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Just hoping that those of you who have translated the Bible from the original Hebrew can clear us these verses for us, and while you are at it, these ones also... Deut 21:18-21 18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

TruthFul

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Where : 10/26/2009
Where did you see in the word of God that 'it is ungodly and illegal to hit children.' This is your opinion and maybe you should keep it to yourself. After you have gone to the jails and see young men and women that had no discipline in their lives telling you that they wish they had someone to discipline them, it is only there and then someone like you would understand. No one is advocating abuse. But whether you are an atheist or someone talking from the top of your head, you cannot override what God said. He said children should be spanked and I know exactly what He is talking about. You will be somewhere hiding when law enforcement in Barbados cannot deal with the situation there because things are out of control.

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: 10/26/2009
To AGS. I have worked in several school systems in the US for 10 years from large to small, city to rural. We/they do not have corporal punishment and the problems like what I was hearing do not happen. As for tardiness, the students get picked up from home or a closer destination by a school bus. This is because they attend school within their zones unlike their choice (then they get their own transportation). Parents are contacted by a specific time when the students does not show up for school via an automated system. I have managed my classrooms successfully because I have swift and fair consequences; the principal's support and if a parent has a problem with it they need to come in for a meeting, by the time it is done they see my point. We also have different levels of discipline. Another alternative is alternative schools. At these schools life is more constrained. The students may earn their way back into the regular school or they may never. Next step is juvenille detention. Of course the majority does not get there this is a small percentage. There are other non violent and physical methods that are effective than flogging. I make my classes exciting, students think and are active and engaged. I allow them to disagree with me and argue a point as long as they can back it up. I give them room and a voice. As much as I loved my school years in Barbados, I was never allowed to do this. teachers need to allow students to be in charge of their learning and be facilitators. I do it all the time and my students love my class. I teach science to middle schoolers. I have considered coming to Barbados to teach for a while. Never know it may happen in the future.

Bajan in VA

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: 10/26/2009
If flogging comes from our colonial slave past, can someone please explain why my Somalian, Malian, Kenyan, Nigerian, Ghanaian and Indian friends all got their butts whupped when they were children too? ----------------------------------- HC ALUM ------------ARE YOU SERIOUS ?? DID'T THE SAME PEOPLE WHO CLONISE THESE COUNTRIES COLONISE THE CARIBBEAN ( WEST INDIES) -----DO YOU understand what slavery ---( of the mind is ) -Man ! go back to school and learn yuh !

Mr. Mout

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HYPOCRITES : 10/26/2009
THE POINT IS IF THEY WANT FLOGING FLOG THEM .Then you hypocrites who think flogging is ungodly ,flogging is barbaric and every thing wrong under the sun can take the lashes out of their behinds .Then you lot will stupse when you go to the supermaket and see a child giving lip or hitting back the parent ,You would stupse when you see a young girl or boy go missing only to hear through the grape vine (not the paper they often tell the missing part alone ) they were at a friend or a man. You would stupse when you hearthat a parent cant get a five year old to hear .You would stupse when you see a child rolling up and getting on bad in public.Give me a break! BEND THE TREE WHEN IT YOUNG . I wonder if some of you commentors are BUDDING lAWYERS that want as many children as possible to go wrong HYPOCRITES .

lILLY

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The truth DOES NOT change; it is unnatural, ungodly and illegal to hit children : 10/26/2009
Tribes in amazon who were not exposed to rest of world do NOT flog nor hit their children, it is not natural. The 1st place colonialist lash anybody was in somalia and africa, and they get lash too when they were slaves of romans. Flogging (assualt) is also NOT legal in barbados..There is no statute nor common law taking away a childs human right not to be lashed and MOE has no authority to assault children. Spare me the religious DOGMA, the rod means spare guidance as ROD in scripture is translated from original Hebrew scripture word Shabach meaning in context @guidance" thus of a child. Institutions interpretations will change all the time, some religions adamantly supported slavery as Scripture sanctioned and legal for hundreds of yrs ..the TRUTH DOESN'T CHANGE (even if censored by this editor) only peoples perceptions.

Free Minded

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Board for flogging : 10/26/2009
To the poster free minded, looks like we have a tic for tac going on here, huh? Well to answer your question,when I last checked, earth is the planet that we humans live on. Secondly, religion is for who ever choose to be legalistic but relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal experience between the person who chooses to have one with God. I'm into relationship not religion. As I said before, this is a free Democracy and all comments are welcome regardless of agreement or disagreement.

RB

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Flogging does not come from slavery : 10/26/2009
Please, please, PLEASE can commenters stop trotting out the tired old argument that flogging children somehow has to do with our slave past? Seriously. It is ridiculous and UNTRUE and a lot of you know it. And for those who genuinely believe that flogging comes from slavery, you are showing yourself up as having a very narrow world view. If flogging comes from our colonial slave past, can someone please explain why my Somalian, Malian, Kenyan, Nigerian, Ghanaian and Indian friends all got their butts whupped when they were children too? Can someone explain why they used to have the EXACT SAME perspective as I did when we were out and saw the hardears, unruly, disrespectful white English children carrying on the worst way to their parents in public? Can someone explain why we all used to suck our teeth and mumble 'if that was my grandmother/mother/father/, they woulda roast my behind?' GIVE ME A BREAK! And moreover, stop giving the white man so much credit. White people did not invent corporal punishment. It exists in nearly every society in the world. It is just that as a reaction to the cruelty of their pasts, a lot of white, Northern countries have gone in the opposite direction and now want to lecture US (!) about human rights. Give me a break! The English can't teach my black self about human rights. Why don't they tell Steven Lawrence's mother about human rights? The Americans can't either. Why don't they tell James Byrd or Luis Ramirez' families about human rights? The Canadians can't either. Why don't they tell all of the First Nations about human rights? I could go on and on. Let us stop being sheep. Our slavish acceptance of the standard that white, Northern countries have switched to, is a greater reflection of our colonial past and mentality than anything else. It shows that we think that if the white man has condemned it, that it MUST be wrong and that we weren't doing anything right for all of these years. SPARE ME!

HC Alum

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Flogging : 10/26/2009
To just asking ,Guidance counselling in Barbados can only go so far and no more . There is no board or body that guides the Guidance Counsellors in Barbados either . At the end of the day there is only so much and no more that can be done . A child may be sent to a Counsellor if they are habitually late to see if there may be an underlying problem such as proximity from home to the school the bus system is another .In some cases it may be suggested to the head and the school board to offer a transfer to another school to the parent .This does not mean the parent will accept it as i have seen . As for true counselling , this is done within the school hours ,hence one can only encrouch on so much of the teaching time and no more .The child must have a parent present if certain questions ae to be asked . If drug use is suspected the child will be sent with the parent to the clinic for counselling . Some children may react differently if they believe they are being counselled because they are mad . It is no secret either that they are seeing the counsellor so they may become more distant or exhibit some other behaviour .On the whole little can be done at school because they are many children to be seen and at the end of the day these children go back to their of time problematic homes . Much must be done in the school system as well as the homes to help bring law and order back .

Mandy

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TEACHER OF THE YEAR : 10/26/2009
Provided that he meets other criteria, give him Teacher of the Year.

Psychotic

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Is this our future? : 10/26/2009
If the floggings tell us anything, it is that our educators are frustrated and for that reason all Bajans should be worried. Our children are our greatest asset. If the people we in trust with our future are not capable of thinking outside the box or are not willing to try to find creative ways of dealing with the age old issue of tardiness how confident should we all feel that future will be bright? Concerned parents, educators, business owners and lawmakers need to come together to find ways to solve the problem. This isn’t a new problem for Barbados or anywhere else for that matter. It has been successfully solve before and it can be solved without flogging. Someone needs to look at the reasons why kids are choosing to be late. If they are late because morning assembly is boring, then consider changing the format. Let’s not forget that our teenagers are also stakeholders in their own future; reach out to them and engage them in process to fix what’s broken with our schools. If the outside the box approach doesn’t work try a few other things that have worked in other countries: 1.Counseling for first time offenders - parent and child should attend. 2.Community service – parent and child should both participate. 3.Fines – parent should be required to pay a fine for each day child is late. 4.Even higher fines or time in jail for the parent when tardiness is chronic and combined with truancy. 5.Fines for business owners and minibus drivers who allow students to hang out at their businesses or joy ride during school hours.

Bajan in India

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Slavery : 10/25/2009
It's time that some folks face reality and stop abusing the word 'slavery'. We have a responsibility as intelligent people to do what is right for ourselves and our families without trying to blame everybody when we mess up. Whatever we choose do with our children is our parogative. We will see the fruits of our labor down the road, i.e., if we are still alive.

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Re: RB You are sadly misled and misleading others with a lie! : 10/25/2009
RB I dont know what planet you and some of these depraved bloggers are on but Jesus never spoke English nor been to England FYI scripture was written in "Hebrew and the English word ROD was used by a sadistic English interpreter in place of the original Hebrew "Shabach" Shabach in the context means to guide..."spare guidance and you spoil the child." and dont lie.. Jesus never hit no child, period! If you want to take Guidance to mean lash someone..you are a depraved sadistic human being...Sadly, you like many are misled because you accept misleading religious interpretations to suit your colonial conditioned thinking. The interpretations of religious institutions are by men and not necessarily actual true to God's intentions, people's many religions once said God sanctioned slavery....interpretations changed..truth doesn't change,only peoples' interpretations and belief in it. If not slavery would still be legal in Barbados..hmm it almost is with this flogging thing except TRUTH is FLOGGING IS ILLEGAL in Barbados and the devil is a liar..To anyone who dont believe in God, well please respect Bds law. I post $1000.00 to anyone who put their name and address and quote a statute of Barbados law which makes assault legal or give a Minister the power to make assault legal in any circumstance, we cant even flog our prisoners, what on earth are we doing flogging the poorest people's children and treating them like dogs, oppressed humans become how they are treated. Our society and leaders need to be examples and become the non-violent change they would like to see, not be examples of the very violence as a solution mentality that we know is plaguing our children and culture.

FREE MINDED

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Outwitted at the gate : 10/25/2009
These students seem outsmarted the teachers as several were wise to the fact that they could not get licks if they did not enter the gate. Here is a system of punishment,that for all intent and purposes failed, since not all students entered the gate and were therefore not punished for their late arrival. If this is pleasing to the Board, someone missed the class on defining success.

Are you smarter than a St Leonard's Boy?

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TO BEEN THERE : 10/25/2009
Thank you for your comments which are taken with the greatest appreciation and respect. l am glad to hear that there is a low student to teacher ratio in Barbados. And for your information, 2 years as a primary school teacher, 3 years as a high school teacher, and 16 years at the College/university level make me qualified to make my comments. I am sticking to them. Let me add, that l got out of teaching kids because of my training, opportunity, and love for challenges. And yes, the money. But my love for quality education, for excellent teachers are without questioned. I am one of those educators that believe that, schools and teachers should be measured not by their own performance but by the performance of their students results on exams ect. Barbados students are superb when it comes to results. However, you will agree that these are exciting times as well as challenging times when it come to the education of our children. We as educaters must prepare for changes. We are no longer restricted to teaching from textbook content to our kids, and one thing is clear, our role as educators has been diverted to restructuring the classroom for the community and to world reform. It is about change. I was asked for solutions and the fact is, l have 101 of them. Again, l am qualified to say this. I am paid big bucks for my expertise in 5 different countries. I believe that our role as educators, especially yours whether university, high school or primary/middle or elementary school is to prepare your students to ask new types of questions, think new kinds of thoughts, and like the good book says "dream new dreams to reach new heights/goals." I can go on and on. It is exciting. My stand on flogging publicly is the same as l stated in other comments. I have been criticized, accused of calling myself a medical doctor, even called a fraud by a jealouse JACKA**. "whoopieee." But at the end of the day, the problems still linger. As a BOARD CERTIFIED psychologist, l still consider myself an educator because my clients/patients seek me out to educate them. Now, to stick to the main issue, l know what flogging does, and l know what it is not going to do. One thing is fact, it is not going to make a good/better/perfect child. Just as the death penalty will not stop killings. I am in total agreement with you though, "Parents should/must take control of their children's discipline, and their lives. No argument there. Again, thank you for your comments and advice. You probably ended this debate which is shifting by many of the contributors.

DR. REUBEN HAYNES PSY.D

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: 10/25/2009
FLOGGING COMES FROM SLAVERY: EVERYTHING IN BARBADOS COMES FROM SLAVERY. Barbadian society emerged from a background of slavery . If we want to correct any problem , social or economic, health or religious , we must go back to that period , study it carefully and then come forward. Many people dont want to hear the word SLAVERY , they run from discussing it and say-lets move on-How are we going to move on without knowing the mistakes of the past ???. Bullying comes from slavery: The biggest bullies were the slave masters and slave drivers.Flogging comes from slavery : Massa and the slave drivers used to whip to telling effect.

SAM

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FLOGGING is Good. : 10/25/2009
There are some parents today who don't have the time,patience to deal with their children. Flogging is good. Pray tell me, school begin at 7:30 and 10:30 children not at school? They need their tail cutting!! Order need to return to school. Some parents are afraid of the children these days, so they don't beat them . They leave them to run wild. I hope other schools across Barbados will implement flogging soon.The Church, school and home use to play important role in children's lives. Some children never been to church. Can you imagine that? Flogging is good.

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FLOGGING : 10/25/2009
I am a Bajan living and teaching abroad, in a country that does not permit flogging. I read these blogs over the last week or so with great interest. I will respond to some of what I consider the more interesting lines. 1. Dr. Haynes who wants a low teacher to student ratio. We already have a very low ratio. I call it the parent to children ratio. Parents are the first teachers aren't they? Let the parents teach their children discipline at home. When they come to school knowing how to behave, I can then teach them to spell, punctuate, read, reason, when to use an adverb and when to use an adjective etc. 2. Dr. Haynes you are prepared to defend anything you say. Would you consider teaching in a SCHOOL for one term? If you teach in universities, that means you got the ones who were disciplined and who got to school less than 2 hours late each day. To convince ME that you know what you are talking about, teach in a school. 3. To the lady Elizabeth H who was trained in North America. Stop making excuses for Barbadian teachers. They are quite capable of defending themselves. The Board did not support the teachers to save face. They acknowledge that over two hours late justifies a flogging. IT IS LEGAL. Get that in your head. IT is a different jurisdiction. In Barbados it is LEGAL. You ask who will flog them to teach them in a few months when they are at college or university? Easy. They are not going to college any time soon, if ever. Children who don't come to school on time do not normally learn enough to qualify to enter college in Barbados. It is very competitive academically, and while our government is prepared to pay for our education at all levels, they have not yet built a "clown college". I agree that we need to teach them how to make good decisions for themselves. Maybe in North America they trained you how to teach children that are not there. That kind of high tech training has not yet reached Bim. We still need to get them in school to teach them. Finally we like to say that when we went to school only certain children got flogged. On reflection we might realise that yes the ones exempted were the children of teachers, policmen, pastors, civil servants etc. What did they have in common? Maybe their parents were educated enough to discipline them at home, and so they knew how to behave and therefore did not need lashes. On the other hand the parents out in the fields were too busy trying to figure out how to make ends meet and were so under educated that they left it up to the school to teach us how to behave in school. At least they had the common sense to know that they didn't have the know how. Just a thought.

Been There

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ZR Culture taking over : 10/25/2009
I went to St.Giles Boys in the 60s and when I got to school late I got licks and\or detention and my nails,hair teeth and pumps had to be clean. Today on the rock parents whose kids can't can't parse,analyse or comprehend at age 15 are upset because the school is attempting to prepare their hooligans for the real world.These parents we watch American shows and views on HD TVs and instantly become Sophisticated Behavioral Experts on the dos & don't s of discipline . We should also be beating them for failing to present\complete home work assignments and if their sophisticated parents don't like it let them Home Schools their monsters. .

ZR culture taking root

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Guidance counsellors : 10/24/2009
By now the licks have worn off, students have had a break and are about to reenter school.Here, the debate rages on and little is being resolved by getting into these personal battles. I think we have overlooked key personnel in these discussions. What role do the guidance counsellors play within schools in working with students and parents to reduce these problems that we have before us? What programmes do they have in place to help children who give the most trouble or are repeatedly in breach of school rules? I would think that the guidance counsellors would work to make a bridge between the school and the parents, like the PTAs, yet we have not heard from them on these matters that they should have some expertise in solving on a daily basis. Let' s hear from the guidance counsellors what is being done and what is working, lest we believe that we are giving birth to and raising a generation of vagabonds.

Just asking

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No Discipline here in the UK : 10/24/2009
I have to say that since corporal punishment was taken out of schools here in the UK that our youth have become uncontrollable. We have had schoolchildren killing each other, teachers being beaten up by unruly teenagers so this overules the idea that smacking breeds violence. Many decent law abiding citizens have to put up with feral yobs and so hide inside their homes, the list is endless. I have visited your beautiful island and liked seeing the schoolchildren wearing their uniforms and walking in an orderley manner. Here the teenage girls wear skimpy clothing sometimes leaving little to the imagination, their faces are covered in heavy makeup and their bad language is very colourful not caring who hears them swearing. The old saying is true 'spare the rod and spoil the child'. Please don't let your beautiful country become like Britain because like us you will end up with yobbish behaviour, gang crime, and no-go areas.

K Toppin

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Board for flogging : 10/24/2009
To the poster Free minded, The Jesus I know and serve is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,and His way is to "spare the rod and spoil the child" which is not accepted in today's society by most people. We can go around in circle on this issue of flogging and be like the dog chasing his tail. Who has time for debates like this that accomplish nothing?! I sure don't ! The bottom line is that people would rather do what men say than what God's Word say and that is OK for people who choose to follow their own way. This is a free society and people can choose to do and say whatever they please. I fear (reverence)Almighty God more than people. I just happened to be one of the "foolish" ones that agree God's way is better than the best remedy that mankind can offer in fixing society's ill such as the one in the above column. This is as serious as I am going to get. Life is short and thank God that the world is never over when people agree to disagree.

RB

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mr. free minded. : 10/24/2009
Mr. Free Minded, You preach as the Trini's say. If the churches could only preach "JESUS" our world would be delightful. Instead of those archaic statements like "The Bible say", and "God say" Those sayings do not relate to us, this should be JESUS' day". You wicked christians.

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Where is evidence? : 10/24/2009
I have watch this debate swirl for the last week, I have even put in my two cents, however , I have notice no one, not even me, have offer any empirical evidence to support out arguments. I believe that opponents of corporal punishment are wrong is in saying that physical punishment should never be inflicted. The popular as well as the educational and psychological debates about corporal punishment are characterized largely by polarization. Those who are opposed want to rule it out entirely. Those who are in favor tend to have a cavalier defense of the practice that is insensitive to many reasonable concerns about the dangers and abuses of this form of punishment.

R.L

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It was a PUBLIC flogging : 10/24/2009
Mind you, its permissible for an adult to flog a child. Small wonder that bullies abound in the school system. Monkey see, monkey do. Isn't there a more humane way to discipline these pupils--maybe starting with a policy that lays out serious consequences for lateness?? Come on people, massa day done long ago.

Desi

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Re: RB - why dont you think more seriously RB? on truth of this serious issue and not me? : 10/24/2009
hmmm..I will stick to describing you as drunken (in ignorance) and fool (for lack of logical & truthful thought) Its sadly ironic for any person like you to mention that you know of this Jesus and then conveniently forget his ways when you form your opinion on flogging. Seriously think like an adult..How many children Jesus hit? It is not authorized by God (he says to guide not lash) nor authorized by the law of the land, an authority which God asks us to respect. A true God is NOT the author of confusion and disorder and there are many other Godly, orderly and patient ways to discipline the most rebellious, downtrodden, forgotten, unparented, misled and deviant children other than violence & threat conditioning, which is what flogging is. I don't even hit my dog!

by Free Minded

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Flogging : 10/24/2009
Would it not be a good idea for the Nation to find schools outside of Barbados where flogging has been recently abolished, say within the past 5 yearsand inteview a few randoomly selected teachers and ask them whether it has created a problem for teaching and what discipline they use. Would it change any minds - maybe. For those who say they are successful and they got flogged, remember probably every criminal at Dodds got flogged as a child, so that argument is not relevant.

AGS

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TO "DR. REUBEN HAYNES PSY.D" : 10/24/2009
Kindly refrain from holding yourself out as a medical practitioner and predicating your comments on said position. In other words, YOU ARE A FRAUD!!! You are entitled, just as everyone else, to post your opinion but we will take it on its merits and not on your fabricated title. We are interested in hearing what is said and not who says it.

Love Barbados And Its People

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Board : 10/23/2009
Dr Haynes, We both agreed that children need to be discipline. Our differences come with spank or don't spank, outside. The fact that the children were flogged outside "hit a nerve" with many.Perhaps, the same response would have been illicited if the floggings had occurred behind closed doors since such behaviors are now frowned upon.You mentioned that those who support flogging would not like being hit in public and I agree with you on that because what reason would grown folk have to be flogged outside or inside a gate ? They have already pass that stage of discipline and floggings, right ? Their folly were long driven out through discipline and spankings when they were children.Some may have fallen through the cracks where no discipline or spankings were administered and their folly grew into adults like they did. The result was crazy adult behavior. Those adults can't be remedy now unless a professional, like yourself help them control or bring under subjection the folly that is consuming them. A tree cannot be bent after its already grown and children can't be discipline or spank after they have already grown. I agree with your solutions(lower teacher ratio,consistency, etc). Now all that is left to be done is for B'dos educational system to start implementing some of these solutions if they have not already done so. Finally, I marveled at your revelation that I grew up with loving, supported parents. You hit the nail on the head with that one !! I was quite taken aback and wondered how in the world you knew this as I was reading your post.

RB

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Board : 10/23/2009
To the poster free minded, why did you stop with drunk fool ? How about idiot, stupid and every other ugly name that you could conjure up in your wonderful "free minded " mind. You should have been still typing until you run out of ugly words,adjectives, keys,or better yet until Jesus come. It does not matter if good or bad words were used to equal RB because regardless of the words used, the post remained the same. Therefore, go ahead with your free minded self, and type on ! There are myriads of ugly words,and from the looks of things, you have a way to go. Be my guest !

RB

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TO GIVE ME A BREAK : 10/23/2009
You seem to have a problem with people that are against flogging children in public. You attacked Dr. Haynes and others that are against folgging in public. What spanking an individual as a child has to has to do with beating someone because they are late for school? I agree with the doctor that flogging children in public is wrong, dangerous, and violent, and if you ask me, the picture sends a sad message to the world about our barbaric ways we are treating our children here in Barbados.

Terry Ford. A Proud Bagan

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To get a grip and gimme ah break : 10/23/2009
Autism, Emotional Disturbance, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, ADHD, and Conduct DisordeChildren with these types of disorders do not respond to floggings. They have mental issues that are beyond the reasoning of a normal person. That is why alternatives even for "normal" kids have to be sought. I have worked with all kinds of kids and flogging does not play a role and I have been successful

Educator

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Simple question : 10/23/2009
i would like to ask doc R. HAynes if he know of any of those injuries he mentioned happening from a floggin in any of the schools in Barbados?

luv bim

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Learn well! : 10/23/2009
This calypso mentioned, that was sung by Our Mighty Sparrow's calypso should be celebrated in our children's heads.Let them learn the words and say them every morning in schools. Parenting is hard and it would be a nice effort to help out the mothers who are left to do it mostly all by themselves. Our men do not get with it YET.Heaven help us!

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EDUCATED FOOLS (OXYMORON) : 10/22/2009
Now that we know the full story behind the actions of the Senior Teacher, I am truly flabbergasted to see that there are people who would still be writing folly in this forum (some allegedly with higher degrees). What other sensible and practical alternatives would they suggest (notice that I say 'sensible' and 'practical')for these students, some of whom are training to be Bloods and Crips? I applaud the board for supporting the teacher, as well as all other persons who realise that when the need arises, a few lashes will work more wonders than fifteen minutes of talking.

Psychotic

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THANK YOU RB : 10/22/2009
RB, I respectfully appreciate your timely response, and would very much like to answer your questions. But let us stick to the issue at hand. Not if my parents beat me or not, or my success, and let me add, my success has everything to do with my voracious appetite for knowledge (the Bagan in me), peace and justice. RB, let us stick to the reason of this debate. Do you think that flogging children in public because they are late for school will make them better citizens, keep them out of jail, or make Barbadian society better? I defy anyone to prove that to me. It is so eazy to call on authorities to beat the butts of children for them to behave. RB, One thing is fact, Flogging in public does not foster a healthy environment for students enthusiasm and learning, and another fact is, hitting a child hard enough will temporarily stop an undesirable behavior, but RB, hitting, floggings, call it what you may will not teach that or any child the expected behavior, and the dangers of floggings lies in its potential for physical abuse, serious injuries both physical and psychological. That is solid facts. Now RB, you asked for solutions. There are many. You or the ones asking for floggings do not want to be hit, humiliated or embarrassed in public. l am sure you thrive on positive reiforcement and praise and can tolerate constructive criticism. You probably grew up with loving supportive parents. RB, not all children in Barbados or for that matter worldwide are fotunate enough to be blessed with this type of upbringing. Many children grow up believing they are worthless, and unloved. Some have deep hidden emotional (psychological) problems. Some have idiots for parents. Here is a solution. The schools should look deeper into these children's lives see what, when or why their behaviors. Yes RB, I am like you and many others. Children need to be disciplined. I am not calling for the abolishment of discipline. I am calling for the abolishment of public floggings. It is WRONG. Here is another solution. Children can be taught a more acceptable approach or behavior by setting consistent limits, reinforcing the desirable behavior, and punishing undesirable or dangerous actions with methods that DO NOT degrade or physically harm them. Now RB, here is another solution which l will borrow from one of my coleagues, Many teachers have limited tolerance/repertoir for responding to misbehavior, and most are not given intenive or ongoing training in disciplinary techniques. The goal should be to prevent disciplinary problems. Encourage low teacher-to pupil ratios in the class, consistently applying riles, recognizing academic weaknesses in students and provide specialized instruction, showing pupils respect. Give your pupils reinforcements to excite them about knowledge, and to increase self-esteem. And what is very important, "They should be disciplined, in a reasonable, consistent, that is physically painless."

DR. REUBEN HAYNES PSY.D

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To the Jersey Girl : 10/22/2009
Never once did I allude to anything that pertained to flogging children with disabilities. I figured that since these pysychologists had all of these suggestions about dealing with aversive or adverse behaviors, I could do with some advice on how to handle my own children with behavioral issues. Secondly, I don't know how you deduced that my line of work had anything to deal with children with disabilities. I really hate when people misinterpret the spoken or written word and jump to their own conclusions without sufficient evidence. Please learn to comprehend what is written before you make any further comments. Gih me a break!!!

Concerned

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Give Me A Break! : 10/22/2009
It is amazing to note that most of the detractors to the "flogging debate" are themselves the beneficiaries of such punishment. If it wasn't for the many teachers who gave the occasional flogging- many of us would be LOST! It is a wonder that this can't be seen for what it is worth and takes up so much time in public debate. To the parents who don't want to have you children endure the "cruelty" of flogging...find your OWN SCHOOL, teach them YOURSELF and don't plague the system with your little ticking time-bombs waiting to go off. It's really sickening how society has FAILED to CATEGORICALLY back-up and defend one of the most stressful and noble set of professionals that has kept the very fabric of our society together- TEACHERS!

RE

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Take your pick : 10/22/2009
If you do not wish your child ,gran or ward to be disciplined in any way home school them . As far as i see it if we have children whom we do not intend to discipline either keep them in a bubble forever .If you don't and the school can't then someone will finish them off with a gun or some stiff blows . SIMPLE

Gabriella

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RB = Drunk Fool : 10/22/2009
RB = Drunk! That all you could be when you wrote blog... a real low life mentality..Please crawl back to where you came from :P

Free Minded

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RB = Drunknin Fool : 10/22/2009
RB = Drunk Fool! that's all you could be.

Free Minded

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Respect: DR. REUBEN HAYNES PSY.D : 10/22/2009
Much respect to you Dr HAYNES for taking your time to share the wisdom..which is appreciated by many and not all wasted on the blinkered & mule minded, who are probably the very examples to the children who become the so called deviant or is it rebellious? Comments in this blog testify to the coexistence of both primitive and enlightened mentalities in Barbadian society. [It would be great if you could find the time to hold a series of sponsored lectures in conjunction with a constitutional/civil rights attorney(s),(who can show how Ultra Vires MOE powers is in Barbados and illegal flogging is..in and out of schools) Lecture in nations like Somalia and Egypt where they are mutilating female clitoris and ex colonial slave plantation societies like Barbados...which spout these subcultural dogma beliefs...and formally invite members from UNICEF, the Attorney General's Office,Ministers of education & child welfare officer, teachers The Prime Minister. People need to write them letters asking for change. The law is the only solution to protect children and hold back these generational wrongs and abuse cycles. I believe it is a violent minority shouting beat, beat beat.. cause they were beaten and subconsciously makes them want to beat somebody too..unfortunately this backfires on us all when those who are beaten become psychologically interfered and then grow up to become my neighbors,friends,spouse, workmates,children's friends, dictatorial leaders,and blindly led too frighten to question type followers. It is a conditioned cycle however I am confident that TRUTH prevails over dogma and everything else wicked in the long run. This beating thing must stop in Barbados.. people's beliefs change but the TRUTH DOESNT CHANGE. FREE MINDED?

FREE MINDED?

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Board : 10/22/2009
To the poster Dr .Reuben Haynes, were you flogged at school as a youngster ? Did your parents spank you ? If yes, were you traumatized from it? what has it done to you ? Did you get renal failure, muscle injury or death from licks ? No ! You most certainly didn't. Look at you today, you are a successful individual and now you think licks are traumatic ! Now, if the teacher by the gate had a 2x4 in his hand and was beating the kids on their heads, faces and the like ,then I could understand your position as well as others who call this type of discipline abuse. Those lashes the student got on his behind didn't kill him, give him renal failure or anything like that. You said flogging should be outlawed. What effective solution do you or the other posters who are against discipline have ready and in place if flogging were to cease today that will help students follow the rules and obey authority ? I'm just curious to see who have a working solution. My solution is, "beat their butts" but that is consider old fashioned, these days. Therefore, If we're going to help the students, talking must cease and action must be taken by parents, teachers, students, educators, etc, and all of them must be in agreement for things to work or else, they will never be a solution to this problem. Everybody, It's time to act!!

RB

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Flogging : 10/22/2009
The educators and powers that be in this island need to get it right . To flog or not to flog . They all need to be on the same page. Not I am saying one thing and you making me look like an idiot in the public eyes . If the parents will do their home work the children wont have to get flog. Some parents want flogging for neglecting their duties . Do not flog them wait until the police have to beat the confessions out of them and then complain of police brutality. Wait until the magistrate sentence them and cuss them out . We have too many armchair sociologists , social workers and psychologists around . Some Children want to be late and are .Especially when they know that their parents are not checking up on them . DO ALL THE BLEEDING HEARTS ON HERE HAVE SOLUTIONS .What constitutes poor .By other standards these children are poor but their owners who by the brand name and all the expensive furnishings do not think so . What you may strive to achieve others wont . These kids need discipline ,they are the leaders of tomorrow. Are any of you willing to take them and show them the right way?

Rose

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I think it is safe to say this is a polarising topic. : 10/22/2009
We should def. continue to revisit constructive debate on this issue. But I think what this boils down to is a simple question: "Do I want my child my child to be disciplined with corporal punishment?" I think in the end what will probably have are two types of schools, one where corporal punishment is handed out, and ones where parents don't want it. Because this goes right down to the fundemental issue of morals and values and how parents want the help them raise their children. I hear a lot of people say it is the parent's choice, but in actuality the children are spend more of the waking hours with their teachers than they do their parents so the schools I feel have a role to play in discipline too.

J. Payne

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WHAT WRONG WITH FLOGGING IN SCHOOL : 10/22/2009
i dont see nothing wrong with a child getting flogg from a teacher.we as parent must come to term that we cant teach the children but let them know that teacher need respect.when i was at school i had lashes and it did not make me a bad person today,then now i have kids i am able to tell them what and how to behave in school,

S.Y

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Woe is We! : 10/22/2009
So again I feel the need to comment. I do agree that those who are against flogging should suggest alternative measures that work. Criticism, in this instance, is not enough. Make suggestions especially if you really care for the country. TO the poster who noted that it will only be the children who will suffer as a result of lawlessness in school, that's not the case. We as a society will suffer since we are the ones who will have to put up with the hoodlums and bandits on the streets and the theft, since those without employment may go this route. Parents need to take responsiblity for their children. At the end of it all, I place the blame 100% on the parents shoulders. Be consistent in Discplining your children and you can't go wrong..

Bajan Princess

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: 10/22/2009
To all those caught up in the "North American" way of thinking, here is another American way of thinking "whup that a--". What are these teachers supposed to do, give these kids "time-outs". How about "time-up"!! Let's stick to what has worked for us in the past. How about parents teach their children responsibility.

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TO GET A GRIP &GIVE ME A BREAK : 10/22/2009
Sir/Madam, your points are well takened with the utmost respect. You are entitled to your opinions as others who gave theirs. I am not going to talk about the role of parents, or teachers but, let me first say to you that l know what child abuse is because l have seen it all too many times, and l am able to recognize it. No Sir/Madam, most of us have not lost touch. We saw a picture with an adult flogging a child, for being late for school, and we are responding to it. The picture is ugly, to the point of horrific, violent,(violence is violence regardless of who is dishing it out), and as Ms. Watson noted, "wrong". This Sir/Madam to me is a picture of a child being abused in public by an adult. It is legalized abuse. And as l said in my last comment, l am not against discilpine, but that discipline should be necessary and appropriate. And Sir/Madam, what is good for Singapore, is not going to work in Barbados. Believe me, l frequent that country. Look Sir/Madam, let us get away from the foolishness. This form of punishment is wrong, it is traumatic, dangerous both physically and psychologically, and should be outlawed. It is simple torture. It is an adult beating a children that cannot fight back. Sir/ Madam, l have seen this type of punishment first hand in Nigeria, Singapore, Barbados, Trinbago, Jamaica, to name a few. You know what, Sir/Madam, l have seen many physical injuries from what you and your antequated system call flogging. They ranged from severe nerve damage, hematomas, ecchymoses, and fractures to muscle injury with associated myoglobinuria. and renal failure, intracranial hemorrhages, and death. I am not a medical doctor Sir/Madam. I am a Forensic Psychologist, and l deal in research, numbers and disease. I am in Private Practice, and l see abuse (which the law requires me to report), and l am on the lecture circuit. I have been a University Professor for 16 yrs, and l am willing to defend my position anytime, anywhere. I wish l had the time to share with you the psychological damage public floggings can do for the growing child. So please Sir/Madam, we are not out of touch. We are just giving our opinions and rightly so. I expect to hear from folk like you, but l am ready. Bring it on.

DR. REUBEN HAYNES PSY.D

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: 10/22/2009
Dear "Get a Grip and Gih me a Break!!!!!" You probably need to look for another job. How can you even in the same breath talk about children with a mental disability to what is consider "normal" children who has the capacity to know right from wrong. Since when does corporal punishment deter crime. I went to school in Barbados and never got flogged from a teacher. Are you saying that these children should be glogged bcause they are ADHD, Autistic, Emotional Disturbed, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, and Conduct Disorder. Dear "get a grip and give me a break" you need to look for a different line of work. There is a place and time for everything and that was not the place nor the time. Corporal punishment do not deter crime. Jersey Girl.

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What are the Schools Supposed to do? : 10/21/2009
Firstly, to all those transplanted Bajans who have written about the fact that the flogging of those students was barbaric and archaic, I must say that you have lost touch with what is really going on in Barbados. Obviously, other methods of discipline have not worked for those countries in which you reside either...unless you live in Singapore. I truely believe that the flogging of those students was a last resort after all else failed. My belief is based on the fact that the principal made concerted efforts to leave the boundaries of the school to reign in the truants on more than one occasion. This does not sound like a guy who is belt/strap/paddle-happy. He seems to be a very reasonable and educated individual who has his students' best interests at heart. Additionally, parents should be thankful that the school system is still willing to go that extra mile to discipline unrudely children amid backlash from the public. To say the least, these psychologists who have voiced their opinions must live in a utopian society where alternate methods of discipline are highly successful. Please provide more information about your services so that I can bring you my children with Autism, Emotional Disturbance, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, ADHD, and Conduct Disorder. I need some urgent assistance with finding evidenced-based and peer reviewed cures for their behaviors. I am tired of being spat on, kicked, punched, and cussed out.

Get a Grip and Gih me a Break!!!!!

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FLOGGING : 10/20/2009
pEOPLE DONT BE STUPID , DONT COMPARE THIS FLOGGING TO THE TALIBAN , THE TEACHERS DONT KILL ANYONE GEEZE

CAN BOY

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UNBELIEVABLE DECISION!! : 10/20/2009
I can't believe The Board of Management would say the FLOGGINGS IN PUBLIC were justified! Ms. Griffith, is this the result of your investigation? In this case then, I think their's need for change to the people in authority, who runs The Education Department in Barbados. Sounds like the teachers are being given permission by the people in our educational system, to beat our children when ever warranted. I hope I don't have to read about the kid or kids, who takes matters in their own hands. I will say no more!! OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, PLEASE BLESS BARBADOS, AND LEAD THESE KIDS ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW! AMEN!!

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Pride : 10/20/2009
Are the students not under school's discipline from the time they leave home in the morning until they return from school in the afternoon? I think so, and their behavior or lack therof is a direct reflection upon the school, the family, and the individual student. This seems to me a matter of pride and self worth.

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Childer go to school and well : 10/20/2009
Please play this sound on the radio I think it was by The Mighty Sparrow. Children go to school and learn well, other wise later on In life you are going to smell hell,without an education in you head your head, your whole life is like a reef you better off dead. For there is no place in this whole wide world, for an uneducated boy or girl.Don't let idle compaions lead you a stray,to earn tomorrow you got to learn to day. This is for the chrildern of Barbados.Bajan 48 Arkansas

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public flogging : 10/20/2009
All that i can say about the boards findings is that if the public floggings were deemed to be justified by them,then i can only conclude that the board and its members are educated ASSES. A DISGUSTED BAJAN CANADIAN.

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SCHOOL FLOGGING : 10/20/2009
What is wrong with all of you people who think that this physical abuse to children is alright,give your head a shake.What this physical abuse is teaching these kids is the way to solve a conflict is with violence. What is wrong with suspending the student for that day and notifying the parents why you did. I beleive any parent worth his or her salt would take this type of behaviour, by their kid, very seriously. Maybe if he grows up to be a man and slaps around his wife because she doesn't live up to his expectations that will be alright with all you guys that beleive physical abuse is the way to solve problems. Isn't that what you beleive? this is 2009, come on ,get out of the dark ages.

BAJAN/CANADIAN

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Licks : 10/20/2009
I am astounded at how we have come to romanticise licks as a "cure all" for almost everything under the sun; from truancy to more serious crime like murder. I wonder if we can try "licking" people as a remedy for swine flu? When our emotions have settled, can we truly look back and say that licks alone is what helps us to be disciplined adults? Children need healthy doses of nuturing from their parents, teachers, and mentorship from others in the community to develop self-control and make appropriate choices between right and wrong. Are any attempts being made to discuss these issues of tardiness with parents of the offending students? Is this method of discipline supported by parents of these students? I would love to hear from the Board what other measures are being implemented in partnership with parents to improve supervision and control of these students, besides sharing "licks" at the gate. Also please come back and let us know how this method of punishment has been effective in reducing student congregation in these public places and in reducing student lateness. If this action took place just last week Thursday in response to student's bad behavior, and students are on break this week, how is that there is "clear evidence of improved standards of discipline" among students?

My 2 cents

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public flogging : 10/20/2009
This is truly a disgrace to Barbados. Public flogging and flogging in general in my opinion is barbaric, humiliating and defeats the purpose of getting to the root of the problem - the parents who have children and then don't have the time or the inclination to raise them properly. As far as the teachers go I'm afraid we are sadly lacking because they are underpaid - you get what you pay for! In my experience we have way too many teachers who just do not care! In addition I know some teachers that actually bully students - TEACHERS I say!!!! And the headmaster who has been made aware does not care either - sad but true. The Minister of Education should resign over this and let's get someone in there who has a handle on what is happening in government schools in Barbados...before it's too late!

Ph.D. in Barbados

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Flogging : 10/20/2009
The good old days in Barbados. I remember when we used to get a good licking from the headmaster and teacher. Spoil the rods and spoil the child. I am a Bajan and a public school teacher her in the United States. Let me tell you something, I a catching hell with middle school children. I say flogging is good to keep our young people in Barbados on the right path. Beat them like hell and keep them straight. Congrats to the vice principal. Keep beating the life out of them

Jacksonville

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To Educated Idiot : 10/20/2009
Why would you call your self an Educated Idiot??? Man yah might need a flogging. Wait are you the Doc. in Pschy who posted below ? Mercy!!!

Free the Educated Idiot

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MORE POVERTY AND CRIME : 10/20/2009
Who are these children that are mis- be- having? what kind of homes are they coming from? what kind of PARENTS do they have? what are the educational standard of such parents? these are just a few questions I am asking; At the end of the day, and at the end of these TRAUNTING and wandering children school age, who is the one that will be regreting? who is it that will not be able to pass the school exams? who is it that will not be able to find a proper job? who is it that will be sitting under the trees or stand by the streets and just looking at others passing by? who will be feeling the pain of not making the most of their school time? yes, you are quite right, it will be the LAWLESS and UNRULY children who dont want to follow orders, it will be those children who dont want to RESPECT older people,and those in authority,which children are most likely to grow up and fill the PRISONS? let children understand that there is something call FUTURE, and FUTURE can be long, please CHILDREN, make your future bright; dont wait until it is too late, you are the one that will be filled with regrets; make the most of your SCHOOL, and the time you spend in school; obey your teachers; respect your teachers; you will be better off for doing so; you may not see it now; but it is your future.

A.H.P. BRIXTON; LONDON

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: 10/20/2009
To Bajan Scholar Abroad.There is a saying that some of us are too smart to have any kind of common sense. You, in my opinion , is probably walking around with a sign on your back displaying your Doctorates. Educated Idiot.

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LICKS : 10/20/2009
It is a shame that we Barbadians who pride ourselves as being smart, would stoop so low as to be critical of others when they themselves are just as DUMB. Thus, some of us should be glad that we can express ourselves irrespective of the fact that we are DUMB and STUPID. DUMB

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Board on flogging : 10/20/2009
All of you who disagree with the flogging, What do you suggest ? Would it be better to let school children behave any old way or would it be better to follow the rules of the school? If no one wants to follow rules,then how about all the teachers going home and not bothering themselves to come to work. It's a no win situation ! If you enforce the rules, people talk. If you don't, they talk.Why bound up teachers like this ? Nothing is changing and the kids are getting worst by the minute.Teachers are gems ! like any profession,they are a few that are dysfunctional. Teachers get no respect and are under paid. Where would all of us be if not for our teachers ? Somewhere, dumpsy as a cubba and now we're all educated and it has gone to our heads. I washed my hands of this entire matter. Let every man jack fend for himself.

RB

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Licks : 10/20/2009
I Must say i agree with this. Too many students are getting away with this nonsense saying the teacher can't hit me, my mother/father would come up here and ........ The reason we have so much crime in this country is because we say "not my child" and allow them to get away with all sort of wrong Headley

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Flogging : 10/20/2009
This act was a big mistake.Punish the children,yes,but not in this way.The children will lose all respect for the teachers and schooling.In my school days and my childrens the schools had their bully teachers and life at school was not nice.

Mike

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Past Senior Prefect : 10/20/2009
Most of these students deserve to be flog. Majority of these students live within a 3 mile radius of the school an students who live at the further parts of this island get there early.The others have to take to school the sisters or brothers since they live in a single parent family. But to those people who want to talk about flogging should be abolished ya talkin bear crap because if the parents don't make sure that they wake up on time or allow them to take their time to get out the house and then expect teachers to perform a miracle when they relise their children are failing exams or half the term late or completely absent for a whole term.

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Doctorates : 10/20/2009
I got a Doctorate in Mathematics from Princeton and Doctorate in Computer Science from Stanford and I say whip their tails. Pysche!!!!! Take back the schools in my beloved Barbados. Fire the top brass in the Ministry of Education. Wait!!! Where is the Dear Minister of Ed ? I guess he has learnt to keep his mouth shut, the will of the people is what will stand.

Bajan Scholar Abroad

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: 10/20/2009
To Dr haynes, I hope you are not suggesting that because the so called professionals wen to "foreign institutes of higher learning", that it makes them better qualified than if they were educated in Barbados?(I think we know better) Anyone who has money to pay can get a foreign degree. All that happens is that you become indoctrinated with foreign values. One has to wonder which set of values is more appropriate for Barbados.

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: 10/20/2009
Who is the idiot talking about legal gurus taking up the fight of these boys. Do you mean the legal gurus that every last one of them in the bunch could do with a good flogging too and half should be sitting in prison? Real idiot you must be. That is exactly why these young boys are behaving so. You dumb fool. DUMB

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: 10/20/2009
Mr Harrison, I love you more. I know that you and try your best, love St Leonards' and would keep a keen eye open for anything untoward. Here are more reasons to JUSTIFY this flogging. Because they are still of statutory age,I would have preferred if they were flogged indoors. Most importantly, the Police should have charged every last one of them with Wandering and therefore place the responsibbility back in the parents'lap. It is time for Government to move with strong legislation to hold more parents accountable. A $50.00 (the last amount I knew) to the Court for incalcetrant children ain't saying one pang. The saying "you have to be in it to understand it" is fitting here.They make sport at the teachers, more sport at the Police,laughing sport at the Social Workers, School attendance Officers, Counsellors,lie without a blink of the eye or so much as a thought to the Psychiatrists and Psychologists. When properly cornered they cry incest; sexual abuse; it's verbal or physical abuse, it's nobody loves them, father won't support them, mother doesn't care, it's no lunch money or busfare. When there are finished lying; they lie again. Don't even mention Court- they produce all the crocodiles tears in the world and are sometimes sucessful at wooing the hearts of gentle Magistrates. But it's mostly fun and games for them. They can't with the foggiest minds fathom what we are trying to get throught their thick skulls and some never do until much later in life when friends are no longer around for support and the value of education lost hits home. Your duty Mr Harrison and the Board, Mr King, Doctor Agard, and Teachers is to keep trying at it amidst all the criticism. Just as God didn't give up on us so we shouldn't give up on the children either. It's about having Plans A through Z (which includes flogging)in place and trying another when one fails. Retired

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WHAT EAS THE MESSAGE : 10/20/2009
What was the message the students were to get from the beating. Did the students get that message. Will there be a change in behaviour? If the answers are yes then all is well. If the message the student got was next time I will not get cought then we could be sitting on a glass foundation. Call it flogging, punishment are all the fancy words. Hitting someone against their will is wrong. If it is ok for the parent or teacher to hit then why is it not ok for the child to hit another child. We will pay when our children leave us at the hospital because they have not gotten rid of that anger.

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PUBLIC FLOGGING : 10/20/2009
fLOGGING, yES.Public floging NO. I started teaching at Belmont Primary in 1964. When I entered as a youn teacher, I was told that no flogging was permitted. I could hand the strap near the blackboard but could not use it. But lets see, that was a different day and age. I had 42 kinds in my "umnder five" class and They turned out very well. Some Doctors, Lawyers , one engineer. I believed that back then the parents had more control over ther children than parents of today, That should not be an excuse. My parents were strict disciplinarians and I must say I am the better for it. We had to respect our elders and ourselves. When I became a parent I did the same with my childrenand they turned out ok, both professionals. A little discipline goes a long way beginning in the home. I visit Barbados every year and Must say I am disappointed at waht I see and what I read of our youth. Too much exposure to bad outside influence. Styop it now before there is no generation to come. That would be sad SP in Canada

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Discipline vs Nuisance : 10/20/2009
It is a shame that a student would be given and have the right to a free education and yet refuse to go to school. What is our society coming to? It is a problem in the U.S, Canada and all over the world, especially among black children, whom just 50 years ago did not have the right to be educated. Do our youth understand that education may not guarantee success, but it makes attaining it much more likely? Do the parents understand this also? If the schools' rule states that the kids can be flogged, so be it. it should not be questioned. Singapore, one of the most successful, if not "D most successful small country in the world" has some of the strictest laws on the Planet (citizens are not even allowed to chew gum)yet they function very well and are some of the most productive citizens in the world. the choice was clear, if you wanted to go to school, you took the lashes, if not you went home and continued down that road to becoming a nuisance to society. Kudos to Discipline By the way, I was educated in Barbados, flogged in Barbados and looking back, both had a great impact on my life.

Bajan in Atlanta

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Wrong Course : 10/20/2009
Those children should not have been publicly humiliated. Period. I know that, the principal, and Dr. Agard knows it too. I'm certain not a single board member or school administrative officer would want to see their own flesh and blood mistreated in that manner. Admit that you were wrong and revisit those guidelines. You owe it to the children.

Teacher of Course

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Keep up the GOOD WORK : 10/20/2009
I have read most of the comments, and few has placed the blamed where it should be placed. It is the responsibility of the parents to instill discipline and not the school. If a child has that discipline (respect) from in the home, chances are that it will continue where ever he or she may go. If these kids understood how important it is to get the best possible education that they can, I am sure that most of the problems that we have with the lack of interest in they education would be resolved. Our Independence Father, God bless his soul would not have provided this opportunity for every child, to have a free education,if he knew that our children would be taking it for granted. I am sure as a teacher who has been in the field for over 3 decades that Dr Agard whould not have flogged these children if it was not warranted. Dr Agard hold your head up and keep on doing what you have been doing for such a long time. As a parent of three, I have no problem with a teacher spanking my child, if they are out of line. Thank You for your years of service. former student living in NYC

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Flogging : 10/20/2009
I believe there must be consequences for actions. The flogging is questionable in that the effects do not last long enough. i support taking away priviledges- not practicing cricket, not making the school teams, lines/research on an usual topic. Let us not leave out the parents- I had to conduct myself properly at all times because my parents had a zero tollerance for bad behavior. Let the parents step up to the plate. Remember the children must be trained - take your pick, parents, employers, police, courts, prison. You decide.Bajan in NA

Bajan in NA

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FLOGGING : 10/20/2009
TO R. HAYNES I WUK IN BIM FUH YEARS. I GLAD IT BACK. F U DONT LIKE IT, PUT U KIDS IN PRIVATE OR OVERSEAS SCHOOLS. LET WE IN BIM DO WE TING. WE DONT TELL N. AMERICA WHA TO DO WID DEM GUN SLINGERS DUH GO IN DUH SCHOOLS.

FLOG DEM AGAIN TOMORROW IF DEM LATE AGIN

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: 10/20/2009
TO "I DISAGREE" CAN U PLEASE TELL ME HOW THE AFRICIAN TRIBES USED TO DISCIPLINED THEIR CHILDREN BEFORE THE SLAVE TRADE BROUGHT THEM WEST?

SLAVERY WHA

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I ALSO BEG TO DIFFER : 10/20/2009
Corporal punishment, physical punishment inflicted on a child by an adult, has been used as a method of discipline throughout history. Did it make a better human being? Did it keep a child out of jail? Well folks, no one can truly answer the affirmative. Let us not change the subject. It is about publicly beating or flogging children becaue they are late for school. I am not against punishing children when the punishment is necessary and appropriate. But, it is a sad day when a group of adults would come to such agreement to commit physical violence against our nation's children. This is nothing more than legitamized bullying, child abuse , and violence against innocent children that are late regardless of the frequency to school. There is no way anyone can prove that beating children in public will teach them to adhere to any expected behavior. You may get them to stop an undesirable behavior temporary, but such actions by authorities are not justifiable. To those who were beaten in their early days of school, perhaps you all deserved it. Those days are gone, besides, adult of that bygone era were not professionals, were not accountable to anyone, were ignorant of the dangers both psychological & physical injuries they caused. Come on folks, our professionals today went to foreign institutions of higher learning. They should know better. Such violence against children just does not work. It will never work. It will do the opposite and society will pay (is paying) for it.

REUBEN HAYNES PSY.D

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Teachers' problems : 10/20/2009
My husband is a teacher in Barbados. Wish all posters from overseas talking about 'abuse' would be forced to teach in some of these schools for a couple of months, then comment. Do you know how many talented teachers are leaving the system or taking retirement as soon as they can? Your perception and the current reality are two differnt things. Only thing that will result from this is that these truant children will now feel empowered to run free reign and teachers think twice before going beyond doing the minimum as even the Chief Education Officer is quick to condemn teachers.

UCZUS

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: 10/20/2009
All you in support of the "great action" by Agrad/King etc should ask yourself one question...If these guys are so good...why were they unable to contol the students before it got this bad?..sorry but this kind of action fails.

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: 10/20/2009
Quote....Students entered the compound and accepted the lashes, but a number of senior students refused to be flogged and remained outside. ...... And they think they solved a problem! And to even say it in public... How disgraceful! When will these schools get effective management?

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Very Good : 10/20/2009
I tell you already and I tell you again, children need de licks, they crave discipline. People getting on as if licks is something new! Spare the rod and spoil the child? I think not! Licks, ah licks fuh cocoa bix!

Pleased for now

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I beg to differ : 10/20/2009
I see that I'm the only one that would break the chain of supporters. When a parent or guardian feels the need to physically punish a child (esp. given their ages bc they're NOT toddlers) then they have poor parenting skills. It's a huge challenge to discipline a child without using force and parents that are able to achieve this are to be awarded. This beating is similar to punishing a child by making them read a book in the corner. We punish them to do things that should be good for them and enjoyable. These kids need to learn about consequences and obviously with children that's not an easy job so we do have to punish them and/OR we can face reality and update our methods. Something about the way we teach is not interesting these young minds. The time we suck it up and face the facts that we need to make some educational reform and incorporate the things that children seem to be addicted to (internet and messaging) then we'll be set on the right track. e.g: a simple thing like a typing course. get them on messenger and require them to have full sentence conversations (not brb, c u l8rs and lols) with their peers under a certain time. They love surfing the web, teach them how to research because this is exactly what they'll do when they enter Univ. Let them research topics that interest them. We're waaaay too traditional and conservative and other countries that made this realization are producing far better results that us in the region. Ok, I'll end here. but if you force a child to do something, they'll rebel. u have to figure out a way for them to WAAANNTTTTT it otherwise when they leave H.S (which is when the forcing by law ends) they'll end their education right there bc they cudn't wait to leave and get out. btw, this flogging ish is from slavery and colonialism, do you see them continuing this system in their schools? errrk, no. ok, i done fuh real now lol.

I disagree

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Mad as hell.... : 10/20/2009
It is my lunch hour and as i do every day i tune in to read about what is happening in Barbados. I love the feeling this forum give me. To be able to share idea with other people who are interested in what is happening in Barbados is fantastic. I would like to know how many responses The Nation receives in a day and if they are mostly form overseas or local. I find the comment made to be very intersting, expecailly from folks living outside of Barbados. I know that for me there is a huge disconnect with the Barbadian culture. So i try to remember that while i was born in Barbados, Babados is not my home,and what i know about it is mostly memories of a different time. thank you for the chance to respond to the stories. peace.

Philly m

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Disappointed : 10/20/2009
The report handed to the board of management is lacking in detail. Approximately how many were amongst the large number of students that arrived and added to “the difficult environment”, and were they additional late comers or students already at school? Instructing 2 teachers to confront and public flog 30 unruly and hostile students was a very provocative action, and the board of management statement in support of it is irresponsible to say the least.

Bajan in New York

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The Board of Management : 10/20/2009
The Board of Management at St. Leonard's Boys School need to revisit their policy of discipline that includes public flogging. The students should've been punished but it should've been done in the office. This type of abuse exhibited by the teacher should not happen.

Baje in TO

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WHERE ARE THE PARENTS : 10/20/2009
DISIPLINE STARTS AT HOME, IF PARENTS HAD A HOLD ON THEIR KIDS THIS WOULD NEVER BE THE RESPONSIBLITY OF THE TEACHERS.KIDS IN THIS DAY AND AGE HASVE NO SENSE OF MORALITY, NO AMBITION AND NO RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES. THESE KIDS SHOULD BE APPRECIATIVE THAT TEACHERS IN BIM ARE SO CONCERN ABOUT FUTURE. LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE KIDS HERE IN NEW YORK. IN ORDER FOR ME CHILD TO HAVE A PROPER EDUCATION I HAVE TO PAY TO KEEP HER IN PRIVATE SCHOOL.A FLOGGING IS NOT CONSIDERED CHILD ABUSE.

QUEENS

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flogging : 10/20/2009
this what education in barbados has come to. this is 2009. u can not even beat animals . and the flogging ur children. they do not no the reason why the student was late. they do not no if the child has a medical condition. some body need stop them. or sue the goverment. then they will stop the foolishness. beating do not make the learn. it just make them more violent .mr. prime minister . please look in to this. i bet if they were going to harrison college or one of the elite school's . they could not flog them in public. this ios discrimination and abuse, were is child welfare.

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discipling : 10/20/2009
A lot of Barbadian parent don't properly discipling they kids. When the authority have to take action weather in school or out of school they get all worked up.When kids are having kids this is what happens. There are some people in Barbados if you speak to there kids they are ready to tell you off. In my day I was told to respect your elders.So if I was doing wrong and a stranger spoke to me I would say yes sir or yes mam.That is respect. Bajann 48 Arkansas

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Thank god they got sense! : 10/20/2009
Congrats to St.Leonards - I am thrilled to see the board agrees!! Obviously the parents don't care so let the school take care of the matter!!!!! See how many come to school late next time!! Abuse is what these kids are doing to the system and governments money. Free education and you show your respect by showing up late - lash them man! Little lash never hurt nobody, I had lashes when I misbehaved and I deserved it!!

Bajan in FL

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board of management : 10/20/2009
do want it takes to keep the students in that school under control.the caringness of the staff about the students will pay off.them students should be lucky the staff care.to the students just respect your teachers and the school rules because school days are the best days.

bajeoverseas

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Allow Teachers to do their work : 10/20/2009
Nowadays every body wants to tell everybody else how to do their work; but power without responsibility can be a very dangerous thing. Teachers have a responsibility to educate and mold young people in their charge, and they try to do so to the best of their ability using tried and tested methods and techniques. There is nothing at all wrong with the accasional flogging of children in a non brutal way in order to get them to comply when they are disobedient or wilfully defiant. It is the only language some children understand; I know this from personal experience as a child and as a parent of four children. Sometimes it is necessary to be cruel in order to be kind, IMO.

a parent/grand parent

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PEOPLE WAKE UP BRFORE ITS TOO LATE : 10/20/2009
Mr. Harrison, I don't think the board need to say anything. WE are in crisis in Barbados, someone have to have the guts to do the right thing. I take my hat off to DR.Agard. WE need to instill discipline in these out of hands kids. I'm sure that if you check the back ground of those kids who are late and giving trouble, they are from the so callled GHETTO. If we as a society continue to allow the high level of indiscipline we will become worse than Jamaica, Guyana or Trinidad. We have reach the stage we are at as a society because we were a very discipline people. I will say it one more time, we need to give more AUTHORITY to all of our teachers. Our kids spend more time with the teachers than with the parents. To all of you out there who don't think that kids should get some cut ass shame on you. Kids who are well diciplined don't get cut ass, its the ones who are out of control that get their asses cut. If we do't stop and take stock now we will destroy this little PARADISE callled Barbados. Believe me a lot of people would like to see that.People wake up before its too late, we still have time to take back this Island. Please don't let the Jamaican GHETTO CULTURE continue to destroy Barbados.WE should be encouaging our kids to go to school and do well. To respect teachers and others in authority. A lot of kid in Jamaica dn't even get the opportunity to go to school.

YOGI

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public flogging : 10/20/2009
I do not agree with the public flogging displayed. What are we doing, slavery tactics on our youth in public? Our youth have a variety of issues in their lives, many that cannot be controlled by themselves. I see that there is no intervention to investigate why this is happening. Well let me give you some ideas. Drugs, physical and mental abuse by peers, teachers and family members including parents, lack of positive role models, lack of love, insufficient meals to sustain them, peer pressure and I could go on. Problem is that our youth are being treated like adults and punished as slaves in the town center.city. Is this how we show we care. We have said time and time again that men are in crisis and this is how we represent our young boys who will become men one day. It is now time to bring in counselors in our schools who sole duties will to be to help our young people, empower them finds ways to deal positively with negative issues, counselors who can build trust and not judge, because believe you me, you all know that there is a huge amount of terrible abuse being carried out on our youth that will drive them to run and behave in a deviant manner. So lets become active in finding solutions and not bring back the slave owners behavior. Spear the rod and spoil the child not abuse and embarrass, ill treat and tear down. So what if that happened to you 50 years ago. That was then. LOVE your children, chastise in LOVE end the brutality. We want men who will not be broken, abused and abusers. Teach our young men positively.

A concerned mother and counselor

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Licks Not The Answer : 10/20/2009
Please, for heaven sake, can one of the Legal Gurus in Barbados take up the fight for these young boys whose rights in my opinion were violated? For example, I would like to BEG Mr. Andrew Pilgram orMr. Alair Shepherd to look into this incident due to the fact that they are about the only two lawyers in Barbados with the BELLY to take on controversial cases. I feel compelled to ask this favor because up to now I have not seen anyone say that the parents should have been called so as to ascertain if there was a legitimate reason why these boys were late .I would also like to hear at least one of the LAW MAKERS (politicians) express a position for this kind of barbaric behavior.In addition, I would like to ask Mr. Ricardo Harrison why he did not conduct his own investigation instead of accepting Mr. King"s report as GOSPEL. Finally, I want Barbados to know that this act has been seen and debated by people from around the world, who might be inclined to cancel their hotel reservations for this upcoming winter season because of the educated fools who wanted to be seen as DISCIPLINARIANS of the highest order.

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Youallrsickpeople : 10/20/2009
How different is this from the Taliban flogging people in public? You all who support this are extremely sick back individuals. You know when this nonsense will stop? When a crazy parent or a crazy student takes the law in their own hands and go totally postal. Mark my words! It's not far from reality. Maybe when that happens, you will wake up and get real. This is pure madness that a civilized society would condone public floggings for late arrivals. Maybe you all should start flogging the civil servants for arriving late, the bank tellers, and the list goes on. You sick people!

Disgusted at the thought

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: 10/20/2009
Let the schools do the job that they are design to do. Better to take corrective measures before they are too late. Those not in the trenches have a lot to say. Few lashes don't hurt properly administered only do well to make the situation better. Kudos to St Leonards for managing their affair and to the Board for its support. Too often some are too quick to bring axes to cut people rather than answers to solve problems. The law says the punishment is legal. Why do some want to make seem so illegal? Teachers are the one charged to train the youth. Let them do the job.

BJA

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: 10/20/2009
I see that now Dr. Agard has fully explained 'the flogging', several 'agreements' are coming through! Tut tut. Those who had all the 'negatives' must be the parents of the unmannerly, undisciplied, duncy children who are wasting time, busfare and lunch money going to 'school' with their pants waist down by their knees. Want to bet if I manage to get hold of the names of those 30 and kept the list for the next 8 years NOT ONE OF THEM WILL AMOUNT TO ANYTHING !!!! AND I BEAR NO EXCUSE FOR SAYING THIS.

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FLOGGING : 10/20/2009
Let me say to those persons who are against what Mr. Agard implemented,do you not read your BIBLE,(SPARE THE ROD AND SPOIL THE CHILD)and we do even as Adults gets chastised by God MR. Agard just did what some parents were afraid or di not have time to do and Mr. Harrison I think you should go have a talk with the pastor of your church(that's if you go) then read your BIBLE< the good word and works is written there....WAY TO GO MR. AGARD I'm sure a lot of those childen parents Thank You Barbadian in USA

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Board for flogging : 10/20/2009
You go teacher, tear their backsides up. I live in Brooklyn and some of these kids here need a good whooping like that. Brooklyn, NY

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To Shame Shame Shame : 10/20/2009
Are you confused about the circumstances. There RULES ARE to be present at school by 7:50am. The govt provides FREE BUS RIDES DAILY that allows them to arrive in a timely fashion. THE POLICE rounded them up and the principal PATROLS THE BUS STANDS & OTHER AREAS looking for truant students. Do you honestly believe that these students have not been spoken to time and time again. It is clear that all involved are aware that there is an ongoing problem and the students are not heeding the words of those in authority. I'm pleased that the board stuck by the teachers and principal on this. We need to stop this foreign thinking that lashing a student when it does something wrong after being made aware of the consequences is barbaric. These are grown students that should know better and can do better. I'm sure if the parents of these children were hauled off to court for them being disruptive you would hear a whole other story. Get a grip on the reality of the situation Shame Shame Shame. 3 LASHES FOR LATENESS IS NOT ABUSE.

Island Girl

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RIGHT DIRECTION : 10/20/2009
This situation calls for a major change in the management of schools and the direction of our educational policy.Firstly, replace the Minister of Education , Mr Ron Jones, with Mr Matthew Farley. Secondly, remove the Chief Education Officer, Ms Wendy Griffith Watson, with Dr Victor Agard. The continuing presence of Jones and Griffith Watson is not in best interest of education and youth development of Barbados.

Bajan at Heart

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For all of the critics out there : 10/20/2009
These children can't receiving any kind of discipline at home. And its sad that we expect someone else to discipline the children. Parents start Parenting! In my school days I could never dream of arriving at school after 10 under any circumstances. And live to tell the tale. I just hope that when these out of control children turn into robbers and rapist that the same critics of Dr Agard don't cry fowl on an increase in crime. And beg government to intervene. Nip the unruly behavior in the bud now. Critics I say to you offer a solution! Stop crying down the school for trying to save a generation. Volunteer your vehicles and pick up all the loitering school children you see on the road!

Mad At the Critics

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Public Flogging : 10/20/2009
I must firstly say that this issue was blown out of proportion by the press. I do support the actions of the board of management of St. Leonards, the law courts are burbened by the likes of these young individuals and further to that the social fabric of Barbados is being dragged through the dirt. What is even more shocking is the public criticism by Mr George Griffith, for a person who should be having knowledge of familie and its structure it is disappointing, or maybe his focus is on decreasing families by advocating abortions, he even called for legal action to be taken. We need to steer our youths in the right direction and if it takes the rod to do so then I support it 100%. Kudos to Dr. Agard.

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Board for Flogging : 10/20/2009
I am for flogging too and I believe that most Barbadians at home and abroad are too. But this is not the issue here. The issue is that the flogging of our students should never be on the front page or any page of the Nation Newspaper or any paper. Do we understand the message that we are sending to the world? I am in no way condoning the behavior of these students. I understand the problem of the lateness of the students and the problems that this cause. But that still does not justify the actions of Dr. Agard. Understand this clearly, Dr. Agard is not a bad person, from all reports he is an excellent teacher and a good and decent man, with a love for his students and his intentions were very good, but the flogging should never have been public. You do not do these things in a matured and progressive society. Next time, take it inside.

Ric (Brooklyn, NY)

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Board of Management? : 10/20/2009
You mean "The board of "miss Management! You should should be fired and without pension. Otherwise how about some licks! Wouldn't that teach you a positive lesson? Shame Shame

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more licks : 10/20/2009
I really cannot believe that in this day and age grown, supposedly educated people are advocating such violence against children. Where is UNICEF? Something needs to be done with the teachers at that school if the only thing they can do is beat up people's children...some serious action needs to be taken against them and the Board that supports them. So the children were unruly in the market...send for their parents and let the parents and the police deal with the matter. Why bring them to the school? They misbehaved off the school compound...in a public place so let the police deal with that. Mr Agard had no right beating them. He really needs to check what ever he is taking that is giving him so much energy to beat so many children. Parents should also speak out against this treatment of the children. If your child has not been beaten yet...don't sit back and say the matter does not concern you...it is only a matter of time...it seems. When children are treated in this manner...no wonder they have low self esteem and lack confidence in themselves.

educator

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GET WITH IT : 10/20/2009
Why the huge outcry!?!?!?!??! We are missing the point. Where were they coming from at that late hour?? What level of school work will be done during that day? When such students leave school without qualifications, who gets the blame? The same school. So why not try to curb this indiscipline early. We cannot give children all these rights when there little or no responsibilities attached. If it was my child, call me down to the school because my child would be getting a second share of licks. I prefer the licks now that if they get them in prison. GET WITH IT BARBADOS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!

A Real Barbadian

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Public Flogging : 10/20/2009
I am a university graduate and left secondary school only 5 years ago. I do not understand why something like public discipline is causing sucha ruckus. Do we really see what this generation is like. The schools are no longer producing scholars, future doctor, managers, teachers or professionals but a unruly youth with no future but drug dealing, sexual promiscuity and teenage pregnancy/ abortions. Honestly,when I was at school we got lashes in prayers in front of the entire school and no one made a fuss. I am proud of what is happening at the St.Loenard's school and I support Dr. Agard 100%. I am sure many of us have seen the behaviour of these students in the bus terminal or have seen them on the road after 10:00 am when they should be at school. It is time for us to take action and secure the futre of Barbados.Kudos to St.Leonards School.

annoyed young professional

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Madness : 10/20/2009
Imagine this s happening in a so called civilised country. How different is this from what the Taliban does. Barabdos needs to come into the modern era. This sick, brutal approach to discipline should be stopped. I dare one of these backward teachers to beat up my children!!! This backward, sick type of discipline should be outlawed. Bajans like to control people too much.

Concerned citizen

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What a shame!! : 10/20/2009
As a Barbadian who was trained and is now working as an educator in North America, I recently found myself in a position where I was making excuses to colleagues for one "senior teacher" who we considered to be archaic and misguided in his approach. We understood and sympathized with his frustration and agreed that it was necessary to send a message to his students. However we agreed that his method was definitely way out of line. I predicted that the senior teacher would be offered some re-training by management, and would be instructed on how to handle similar situations in the future. Here we are, less that one week later, I now find myself in a position where I have to listen to my colleagues' comments on an entire school board. I am ashamed that they would take this approach. How about some positive reinforcement and constructive motivation of students? The tardiness reflects a failing in the ability of parents and teachers to teach and instill basic respect, discipline, and accountability. Are we teaching the children that a flogging is necessary to get them moving on everything they do? At what age will these floggings stop? Who is going to flog them in a few months when they are in university or college? We need to teach them about the need to make good decisions for themselves now and as they progress through their teenaged and early adult years. The personal management skills and habits they cultivate today will make or break their lives. Now is the time to make your mark teachers! Now is the time to inculcate in your students the need to become responsible citizens. What will they learn from a beating: absolutely NOTHING. I have many great stories in my students' career successes. I am very pleased to say that I have never hit even one of them. Having written all of this it just hit me that the board had to say what it did to save face and maintain respect with the students. In private, however, they will deal with their errant senior teacher.

Elizabeth H.

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More licks like peas! : 10/20/2009
Victor, Go and pick a tamarind rod from the cemetery and start cutting *ss all over again. For god sake don't let Bajan kids get like our kids in the USA. Every blessed day I shake my head in shame at what has become of the black child in this country. Respect, Morals, Pride and a hunger to learn is all gone. ****ing gone. NONE. Fathers don't care and mothers too busy trying to survive to save they own children from the street of America. In Barbados you still have a chance, don't let naysayers stop you from salvaging our most precious treasure. Our children. Keep them grounded. Just like Evangelist Agard kept you and me, and you kept your daughter, RIP. ...Balgobin7@gmail.com

Balgobin7

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"FLOGGING' : 10/20/2009
This issue is really a serious matter for all to think about including the courts.Why a school official is allowed to "flogged"my children and when I discipline my children in terms of some sanctions and "flogging" the courts consider this to be CHILD ABUSE .I think you all parents have to research the rules and regulations of the school system in Barbados and also the constitution of Barbados in terms of school children rights.Wake up parents you all have rights please transform them into some action this is the 21st century we are living in.

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Good!!! : 10/20/2009
I'm agree with diciplinary actions carried out in schools. And believe that this should be done throughout the world. At present I'm in a country were the children dont get one damn slap at all cause u cant hit them and they are all bloody unrully. Them should be glad that there is someone that gives a damn about them. When u register for a school u get a set of rules, one person's head cant be so hard that they cant follow instruction. when since them even work somewhere to be breaking a rule. and shame on any parent that wants for the disciplinary action to be stopped because as far as i am concerned if you all even gave a crap about your children them would have had their behinds in school way before time for registration.

Only just left school

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THE TRUTH IS A MUST : 10/20/2009
Many readers voice they displeasure regarding the discipline given to these yongsters.I am sure Dr.Agard ask for an explanation as to they tardiness. The truth is that here in New York the security of the schools are controlled by the Police Department,furthermore coupled with metal detectors they is a police unit that patrols the city and pick up truant kids. Lets face it the country is using tax dollars to provide free education and the kids rewards they country and parents by not going to school. Is that what we are saying to our kids? Are we real, what is missing here? I say beat them, when I got lashes some one was always watching.Finally if we as parents police our kids we won't need big goverment or my hero Dr.Agard to do it for you. Charity still begins at home so does discipline

C. Clarke

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Board Flogging : 10/20/2009
It's someone stood up,finally we have a group telling our youngsters your actions will bring consequences.WE have been catering to them far too long.Parents complain they are out of control,lack of respect,yet we make excusesfor them. When I talk to my kids regarding failing to obey the rules of our home,it also comes with a punishment;very often denying them the right to television phone or computer don't work.So yes I beat them,we get along fine and they know what is expected of them. However in the sttuation at St. Leonards there wass no intervention from parents, and the administration leagally met the abuse head on-now we scream murder.These kids are in training for prision- yes i said it they are the prisioners of tomorrow. They have no education,no respect for authority and tomorrow they will be less for society. We must be honest with ourselves, so I support the board and CHAMPION Dr.Agard,for I believe this action has detered only one kid then they would have done they job.

Carlos

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Flogging History : 10/20/2009
Let me start ny saying i agree with Mr.Agard 200%.Im a long past student of Chruch (Water st)boys school in which the now present minister of education and principal of the richmond gap school were teachers. and the use to lick the dust off oy u when you were wrong so why does the minister have a problem wit it .Did he forget his history .Also i was at the same Richmond gap school from 1979 to 1984 principal colvin hope was the master he had crowd control .

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Board for Flogging : 10/20/2009
Well done!! This is the reason why we place educated persons at the top of institutions to make tough decisions. What I read that occurred was nothing more than discipline at its highest. It was never any assault and surely nothing for any of the teachers to be disciplined for. How would I as a parent feel knowing that my son left home for school early and after 10:00 he still hasn't reached there. I support the actions taken by the principal and Mr. Agard. This form of discipline should continue and I am sure that you will no longer see the vast amount of students returning late to school whilst loitering around town and other places causing havoc. St. Leonards is becoming a school well recognised for its Spanish and Musical programs and they really can not allow those handful of deliquent continues to drag it back down when it is trying to rise above. Again I say well done that kind of discipline is the only thing that those students understand. Have any of the parents of the children who were late complained about them being beaten I think not and this is because they know that their children had no business turning up at school at this time and knew they deserved every lash they got. Is three lashes to the behind abuse?? I think not.

Bajan in Cayman

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: 10/20/2009
I must say that whilst I agree with corporal punishment in Schools (not for everthing though)I did not support the public flogging of the children from St Leonard's school. I think it could have been dealt with behind closed doors. However, as it seems that we are not talking about one or two children and in an attempt to maintain some order, I can understand kind of understand how the situation could have arisen. However, what a pity that those children who were rounded up in Bridgetown were not taken to an area and be held there and their parents called and the situation dealt with right there. No way should they have been taken to school. It seems to me that the Principal is going beyond the call of duty- going to the bus terminal to round up students! Strictly speaking Teachers are responsible for the children while they are on the school premises. Parents you have a responsibilty take it seriously. Teachers, you have a difficult job I wish you all well.

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Reasoning : 10/20/2009
We need to keep an eye on the root problem and not focus on the dicipline. First, The police having to round up kids and put them on the bus to school. This indicates there was no problem with traffic causing tardiness as indicated by others yesterday. Second, the Principal has to go to the the bus stand - this shows an ongoing problema and he should be commended. Studies have shown kids ability to reason is limited. kids are more violent today and we are using more reasoning and less dicipline...go figure.

100% Bajan Too!

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Board for flogging : 10/20/2009
For Mr. Harrison and his Board of Management to actually promote and support PUBLIC flogging is the epitome of warp thinking. Why not just line up the violators in the bus terminals and give them a good old Bajan cut a**? If this were done, I'm sure that the Board would agree with me that these unruly and hostile violators would think twice about ever desecrating the rules again. Get a grip, Mr. Harrison - What this situation needs a sober Board of Management that will offer progressive solutions and not blind support of PUBLIC FLOGGING!

100% BAJAN IN NY

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Board for flogging : 10/20/2009
Those 'late birds' would remember this 'flogging' hyped up by the sensational Press for the rest of their lives. I bet that punctuality now has a new relevance and meaning to each of them, to be carried forward right into adult life. Well done Senior Teacher and St Leonards! Jerry Sutton, Surrey, SM14HU

Board for flogging

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Licks justified?? : 10/20/2009
No way! No way! No way! If this is justified, You may as well say to the physical abusers here and there in homes or else where that it is OK to continue to beat. Forget about criminal charges,and forget about learning life- skills and respect for an individual. Go ahead and continue to relive our "change resistant horrid past". Shame Shame Shame.

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KUDOS FOR CARING TEACHERS : 10/20/2009
Many were quick to judge without the full story. I fully support this measure. If we continue to allow unruly behaviour to contInue without consequences we will see more of our boys ending up at the notorious institution at Dodds, instead of in one of the many free tertiary places of learning. Children will make mistakes but it is time for adults to guide, correct and show the way. Many kudos to the Police. It is shame that some with the authority and rightful access did not seek to talk to the St. Leonards School before passing Judgement. To the teachers out there who care for students who are not biologically theirs and may not have parents who watch vigilently over us. Many of us thank you that have passed through your strict disciplined ways. If it were not for you many of us may be in trouble with the law. Instead some us are Carpenters, Doctors Lawyers, Nurses, Architects, Mechanics, Media Workers, Craftsmen, because you believed in us. THANK YOU TEACHERS AGAIN

HANDLE THE BUSINESS

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